NOT to start the V6/V8 B.S., but is it just me, or ....

[Gstick]

Correct me if I’m wrong, but wasn’t the DZ302 engine a 327 CID block with a 283 crankshaft ?

[KenKat]

Maybe they are similar in terms of relatively high horsepower output for their size and the fact that they are the small engine option in their respective years, but they are totally different engines in terms of design technology.

The 302 V8 is an overhead valve engine closer in design to the V8 engines in current camaros than it is to the V6, which is a DOHC engine design. The V6 engines used in the Camaro are actually closer in design to the Coyote 5.0 in the Mustang than any of the GM V8 engines.

[PDXSSCE]

Originally Posted by qcman

IMO yes it is. Similar power though the mighty 302 was underrated. It was 290 HP but in reality closer to 375 stock or so. It also continued to make power beyond 6200 RPM where the LS3/L99 don't unless they are cammed etc.

Weren't those gross ratings vs modern net ratings?

[qcman]

Originally Posted by PDXSSCE

Weren't those gross ratings vs modern net ratings?

I think that is true to a large degree but GM underrated the 302. I saw stock dyno RWHP numbers that were close to 290.... So allowing for drivetrain loss I would be close on the crank number.

But I agree the testing in those days had just the motor & nothing connected I believe. I did a bit of reading on the 302 today and thats where I got some of my info I noted. I always admired them since I was a young lad.

[Norm Peterson]

Originally Posted by DonM

... is the 3.6 in the 5th/6th gen Camaros reminiscent of the 302 that came in the 1st gen cars?

I mean, a smaller engine that revs high & fast and puts out more than a respectable amount of power for its size?

I get what you're trying to say here . . . power from a smaller-displacement high-revving engine as opposed to brute power from brute displacement. It's a totally different 'character'.

It'd be an easier 'sell' if the 3.6L had 8 cylinders instead of 6 even if the power and torque curves were virtually identical, but even that wouldn't win over very many of the "no replacement for displacement" crowd.


Norm

[CamaroFred]

Originally Posted by gringo

The 3.6 can't compare to modern engines in torque? The LFX has only 6 ft-lbs less torque than the "state of the art" LGX 3.6. That's primarily due to the LGX being a larger displacement 3.6L than the old LLT/LFX.

Since the Z28 had to be N/A for heritage reasons, GM just stuck the big cubed LS7 from the Vette in it. Even though it was a large displacement, the high revving small block nature of the LS7 fit in with the heritage of the original "302" Z28.

Sure, it would've been better if they designed a modern interpretation of the 302, perhaps a state of the art 5.0L V8 with a 9-10k rpm redline, but the LS7 was pretty good and it was a lot cheaper.

What gets my feathers in a ruffle is the new Corvette ZR1 LT5. That "LT5" should've been a modernized DOHC 32V V8, not just a pushrod LT4 with a larger blower on it. Ugh!

The 1st gen Z/28 used the 302 because that is what the racing rules called for. 5.0L max.


The 5th gen Z28 went n/a because that is what the rules allowed. Not because the 1st gen was n/a.

[captaincog]

The big difference is the 302 was a small block that was configured to run within a racing class homologation. Nice set up.


The v6, which I am now on my second engine has some serious design defects in my opinion that affect the longevity of the v6. That along with there are no real interchanging of parts as easily as in a small block.


Interesting idea though.

[gringo]

Originally Posted by CamaroFred

The 1st gen Z/28 used the 302 because that is what the racing rules called for. 5.0L max.


The 5th gen Z28 went n/a because that is what the rules allowed. Not because the 1st gen was n/a.

Yeah, I know about the 302 max displacement thing. However, having a F.I. powered Z28 would be somewhat redundant since the ZL1 was already in production the two years before in '12.

However, it's interesting to note that the rules only allowed N/A, but the displacement ban was lifted over the years.

[DRKS1D3]

Originally Posted by gringo

The 3.6 can't compare to modern engines in torque? The LFX has only 6 ft-lbs less torque than the "state of the art" LGX 3.6. That's primarily due to the LGX being a larger displacement 3.6L than the old LLT/LFX.

Since the Z28 had to be N/A for heritage reasons, GM just stuck the big cubed LS7 from the Vette in it. Even though it was a large displacement, the high revving small block nature of the LS7 fit in with the heritage of the original "302" Z28.

Sure, it would've been better if they designed a modern interpretation of the 302, perhaps a state of the art 5.0L V8 with a 9-10k rpm redline, but the LS7 was pretty good and it was a lot cheaper.

What gets my feathers in a ruffle is the new Corvette ZR1 LT5. That "LT5" should've been a modernized DOHC 32V V8, not just a pushrod LT4 with a larger blower on it. Ugh!

Originally Posted by SecondZ28

I completely agree

Being that this is a 100% completely subjective topic, I'll add my opinion as well:

So, you'd both rather have a larger, heavier, more complex, more expensive to mod engine design?

Personally, I'll stick with the smaller, lighter, mass centralized, pushrod V8 that has been tried and true for over 100 years.

[SecondZ28]

Originally Posted by DRKS1D3

Being that this is a 100% completely subjective topic, I'll add my opinion as well:

So, you'd both rather have a larger, heavier, more complex, more expensive to mod engine design?

Personally, I'll stick with the smaller, lighter, mass centralized, pushrod V8 that has been tried and true for over 100 years.

GM DOHC V8’s are back

I think there needs to be more differentiation than simply a larger blower.

Really what GM should’ve done was save the blown V8 for ZR1 and gone n/a on the Z06

[DonM]

Originally Posted by KenKat

Maybe they are similar in terms of relatively high horsepower output for their size and the fact that they are the small engine option in their respective years, but they are totally different engines in terms of design technology.

This is exactly what I was referring to ...

[TooManyProjects]

Originally Posted by redcoats1976

well you know the V8 guys are gonna poop all over this thread,but 323 horsepower out of 217 cubic inches with a glass smooth idle and ability to run well on 89 octane is nothing to sneeze at.back in the day anything over 300 honest horsepower was respectable,and dyno runs were conducted with no accessories to drag down the numbers.and it does have the same character as the 302,the higher you twist it,the better it runs.

You know someone is reaching... when they bring up how a car idles ....

[DRKS1D3]

Originally Posted by DRKS1D3

Being that this is a 100% completely subjective topic, I'll add my opinion as well:

So, you'd both rather have a larger, heavier, more complex, more expensive to mod engine design?

Personally, I'll stick with the smaller, lighter, mass centralized, pushrod V8 that has been tried and true for over 100 years.

Originally Posted by SecondZ28

GM DOHC V8’s are back

I think there needs to be more differentiation than simply a larger blower.

Really what GM should’ve done was save the blown V8 for ZR1 and gone n/a on the Z06

Yep, they're back. It's gonna be great! Modifications that cost $2,000 on a pushrod will now cost $7,500 on a DOHC.

More differentiation costs more due to development and engineering costs, which in turn, gets passed onto the customer. Superb!

Call corporate and share your dismay in the C7 Z06's forced induction engine.

To each their own.

[farm rat]

I owned an original 302 Z/28 and I currently own the LLT V6, but it has been a LONG time since the 302. Honestly, I think low end torque was better with the 302. I never took the Z out on the highway like I have with the LS, it was more of a stop light to stop light car.