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Old 11-23-2017, 05:53 PM   #29
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when backing at a 45 degree or more angle the mirrors are almost useless, you have to look out the window for perspective. How would you do that sitting in the center of the cab?

Mirrors are a perfect reverse image. Video can have a fisheye distortion.
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Old 11-24-2017, 11:32 AM   #30
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Article in today's paper about the Tesla Semis...

http://www.dailybreeze.com/2017/11/2...e-its-release/
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Old 11-24-2017, 12:59 PM   #31
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Article in today's paper about the Tesla Semis...

http://www.dailybreeze.com/2017/11/2...e-its-release/
Quote:
On Wednesday, Tesla increased the “base reservation” fee to $20,000
Translation: We need more cash now to get Model 3s out the door.
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Old 11-25-2017, 01:05 AM   #32
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The problem here is that you have two separate vehicles articulating.
No, not a problem for computers, and what do you want to bet that Tesla takes it to a new level, either pre-set for the length of trailers to be used, or fitted with some other technology that can sense this.

https://www.wired.com/2015/05/ford-m...-turning-knob/

https://www.forbes.com/sites/dougnew.../#15a46f245c8d

And who knows, maybe it has pop-out mirrors to assist when backing only, but technology is radically providing solutions to these issues.
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Old 11-25-2017, 09:06 AM   #33
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If you look at the above renderings, it's already fitted with large vertical mirrors.

Automation will not beat an experienced driver in pretty much any backing situation, and there will be quite a few situations that the computer will not even comprehend.

About the best they'll be able to do initially is let an automated truck drive from and to specific lots made just for them, where humans will still be taking over, delivering the freight to the customer and picking up freight.

I checked out the articles, it looks like they're little more than keepng a trailer straight while backing straight up. See if you can find a vid where it shows backing to a 90 degree dock... not the final vid, the one of 1000 vid's that showed the previous failures.

Have you ever seen a driver back a 70' vehicle into a 60' spot? Blind side?

Long story short, there will be plenty of area's that drivers go, where a Tesla truck will refuse to go.
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Old 11-25-2017, 09:14 AM   #34
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I just watched a video of the Ford system... more power to them, but that system isn't automated, it's just simplifying the confusing part of backing, and putting it in a knob you turn instead of a steering wheel. It's like manual vs. auto, it eliminates steps that can be confusing for noobs. OnGuard is another, it automatically brakes for a driver that should have been paying attention but wasn't.

Tools that simplify work can be awesome, but would you rather have a professionally hand forged knife, or a knife stamped from a machine in Taiwan? The more techno advanced we become, the duller we get.

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Old 11-25-2017, 11:25 AM   #35
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I can't wait to see them try and make a delivery in, NYC, or San Francisco... humans know how to react to other humans that are backing up a truck or car... or bus.

https://www.washingtonpost.com/news/...=.5ccd231e609b
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Old 11-25-2017, 02:18 PM   #36
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I can't wait to see them try and make a delivery in, NYC, or San Francisco... humans know how to react to other humans that are backing up a truck or car... or bus.

https://www.washingtonpost.com/news/...=.5ccd231e609b
It drives into the path of a backing vehicle then stops..... Although, in it's defense, there are more than a few "humans" that will do the same thing.

Situational awareness, it's lacking.
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Old 11-27-2017, 10:19 AM   #37
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You said backing up is an issue due to central seating.. I see no reason cameras can't take care of that issue, whether it's more prevalent on their truck or not. Obviously mirrors will be there..
Because there are still times when drivers are backing a trailer into an alley where they need to stick their head out of the window to see what's going around them. Especially if they are in an area that is new to them.
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Lets keep it simple. ..
it has more power...its available power is like a set kof double Ds (no matter where your face is... theyre everywhere) it has the suspension to mame it matter...(
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Old 11-27-2017, 10:46 AM   #38
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Because there are still times when drivers are backing a trailer into an alley where they need to stick their head out of the window to see what's going around them. Especially if they are in an area that is new to them.


This is a good example of a difficult situation, the difficult part is impatient cars wanting to get by in the outside lane. Also, what happens in 95% of backing, once the driver gets the tractor jack-knifed to that position and farther, the drivers mirror is pretty much useless. You need to stick your head out the window and look. It's possible with a camera, but the camera will just make a simple backing situation into a difficult one. A wide view camera creates fisheye distortion. A narrow view camera (without fisheye) wouldn't show enough information.

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Old 11-27-2017, 10:50 AM   #39
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This is a good example of a difficult situation, the difficult part is impatient cars wanting to get by in the outside lane. Also, what happens in 95% of backing, once the driver gets the tractor jack-knifed to that position and farther, the drivers mirror is pretty much useless. You need to stick your head out the window and look. It's possible with a camera, but the camera will just make a simple backing situation into a difficult one. A wide view camera creates fisheye distortion. A narrow view camera (without fisheye) wouldn't show enough information.

Exactly. My office is in an older industrial park. It is very tight around here. Drivers need to be able to see what they are doing with their own eyes. They also have to do "blind" back ins to get to certain loading docks. Especially when the weather gets bad, drivers need to be able to see.
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Lets keep it simple. ..
it has more power...its available power is like a set kof double Ds (no matter where your face is... theyre everywhere) it has the suspension to mame it matter...(
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Old 11-28-2017, 09:34 AM   #40
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If you look at the above renderings, it's already fitted with large vertical mirrors.

Automation will not beat an experienced driver in pretty much any backing situation, and there will be quite a few situations that the computer will not even comprehend.

About the best they'll be able to do initially is let an automated truck drive from and to specific lots made just for them, where humans will still be taking over, delivering the freight to the customer and picking up freight.

I checked out the articles, it looks like they're little more than keepng a trailer straight while backing straight up. See if you can find a vid where it shows backing to a 90 degree dock... not the final vid, the one of 1000 vid's that showed the previous failures.

Have you ever seen a driver back a 70' vehicle into a 60' spot? Blind side?

Long story short, there will be plenty of area's that drivers go, where a Tesla truck will refuse to go.
I understand the point being made, but you're comparing the output of decades of practice against the first few revisions of software.

It's John Henry and the Steam Hammer all over again.

Last edited by kevint; 11-28-2017 at 09:59 AM. Reason: words
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Old 11-28-2017, 04:04 PM   #41
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I understand the point being made, but you're comparing the output of decades of practice against the first few revisions of software.

It's John Henry and the Steam Hammer all over again.
They went thru the first few revisions years ago. I have a good idea what it'll take to back a dynamic articulating vehicle autonomously. It's possible they're doing it in a controlled environment now but they're not close to going public with it. Too many variables.

I'm not gonna go into it. If they want my opinion from 30 yrs experience they're gonna have to pay me for it.

John Henry. Didn't he kick the steam hammers butt?

I'm gonna die with a wheel in my hand.
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Old 11-29-2017, 08:33 AM   #42
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https://www.cnbc.com/2017/11/29/buil...medium=twitter

This company is a train wreck.
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