My thoughts of the 2014 Camaro and the Z/28......

[Thrillz]

Originally Posted by fbodfather

As to 'real' people input, I can't think of another car in this industry that takes more input from their enthusiasts.

Here is one of the polls on this site that's telling you how the people here feel about the new change's. Do you not find this alarming with this kind of negative feedback from the enthusiasts?

[Azzkker]

Scott, just wanted to say thanks for all the suport you have given the F-Body community in general. I remember when you went by a different name on other web forums before the f-bodfather, and that was RED PLANET.

You gave us insight on what was happening, and kept it real. Your patience has always been top notch as you have withstood some top quallity negative ammunition throughout some tough times.

I have owned 5 camaro's and 3 firebird's prior to purchasing my ZL1, and i have to say, this car is the best one out of all i have driven. I know the new body will take off once it hits the streets and belive your team has hit the Z/28's target on the bullseye. If the Z/28 was available at the time i ordered my ZL1, it would have been a super tough choice on which one to buy!

These are exciting times for f-body fans and enthusiast alike, especially ones who remember the dark days that once stood.

Thanks for all You and the Teams hard efforts in these great cars!

Can't wait to get the perma grin back out for spring!

thanks
anthony

[2010 SSRS]

Excellent Thread, Thank you Scott and the rest of Team Camaro, I love the 2014 SS and the Z/28 and once again Team Camaro never disappoints

[HelloWorld]

Thanks.

I've liked the refresh from the start and early on I pointed out that this does seem to happen with every car refresh/new model nowadays. It happened with the C7 reveal and it will happen again with the 6th gen when it's time for that. It's pretty sad but some people evidently sees changes they don't approve of as a personal insult.

[SilverSurfer21]

Originally Posted by fbodfather

SilverSurfer - I'm not sure if I know you or not - but let me respond to your thoughts.

We're about the same age. Your opinion is that the Camaro got uglier and uglier through the years. I don't agree with you and I don't think a whole bunch of Camaro Enthusiasts would agree. True, it's always been an internal struggle between design, engineering, manufacturing, and finance. That's the nature of the beast. I don't know of another automotive manufacturer where this doesn't happen to one extent or another. If it's true that you were an engineer for GM for 30 years, I wonder how loudly you protested when something was proposed that didn't make sense. I'm not saying you don't but I've sat in meetings where a lot of people sit there like bumps on a log during a very "spirited" discussion - and others of us spoke up and argued. We didn't always win - that's impossible But these very same bumps on logs would then leave the meeting -and suddenly find their voice and complain after the fact........... I hope that wasn't you.

"The Emperor Wears No Clothes" I think, does not apply on this website or any other - and the proof is the many posts that precipitated this post as a way of explaining WHY things were done. I've been on this site from the very beginning - and in fact I was on many sites when it was not 'blessed' by GM to do so. I'm here to tell you that the people on this site have no problems telling me exactly what they think. HOW they say it goes a long way. (...such as using fowl language-- and when people behave badly, I tend to sometimes discount their comments....)

As you are a retired GM Employee, I really wish you'd not use words like "Suck" as I don't think it's befitting the position you held and I don't think it reflects well on your fellow GM Employees and Retirees.

The LED Tail Lamps come with the RS package. The regular tail lamps are incandescent. There are reasons - one is cost. Another is that not everyone loves LEDs. Further, we listened to our enthusiasts who told us that there should be greater differentiation between an RS and a Non-RS. Yes, we listened to our customers and we will continue to do so. So we have two different types of tail-lamps on the 2014.

You may not like the tail lamps - but if you go back and read what I wrote at the beginning of this thread, I explained that a lot of people hated the current lights as well - but they evidently got used to them.

As to 'real' people input, I can't think of another car in this industry that takes more input from their enthusiasts.

Hello Scott, I have always voiced my opinion on issues that came up at work. I was noted for not being afraid to say what was on my mind, even when it got me in a little trouble. lol. What I was trying to say was that I saw too many times various car platforms had good intentions in redesigning a particular vehicle only to get denied the proper funding to complete the job. I saw many mock-ups started 3 years in advance only to get a drastic cut right before "pilot phase " and we would have to scramble to figure out how to try and do a miracle with only half the money and half of the new components needed. The result was not very pretty. A few interior changes and a few exterior changes. We had to go to the "parts bin to see if we could use anything from another platform. The "F body" was no exception.

The Camaro was competing with Mustang and even Mustang went through the "ugly" phases too. Sales started dropping off and the car was losing it's identity. Yes, there were still young kids that liked the "current" model but for us boomers...we hated it, at least everyone that I knew that like the earlier ones. When the 4th generation came out, I wanted one again. I thought the Firebird kept it's looks much better than the Camaro did. I had two of them while waiting for the Camaro to return to a good looking car again. The 4 gen brought my faith back again only for it to be discontinued. Then I saw the 5th generation concept and couldn't wait to get one when they went into production.

The "real" comment was for the "disciples" being involved again. They weren't this time for some reason.

Scott, I never used foul language and don't believe in using foul language. The word "suck" is an everyday word that sums up my feelings about the rear taillights. They look like an after thought. I know they have to be a compromise of some type. They just don't go with the rest of the car. I know it is my opinion and I am not on the "F-body" team so my opinion doesn't matter...only to me. But I just wanted to comment and give you my honest opinion for what it is worth.

The comment about "the Emperor's new clothes" was about when someone in authority says that this is the way it is so everything is great. Well...it isn't. I know you are very well respected and I even envy you myself. I would have loved to have had some input on this car. I still think it is a great car and that's why I am so compassionate about it. I want it to succeed in every way and not turn into the late 2nd gen or the 3rd gen. The reason for the success of the 5th gen was all the input from the "disciples", people just like me. The 5th gen had retro styling but with a mix of modern too. The LED lights are modern, and why should we have to pay for an RS option of $1600 for all that extra stuff we don't want. I don't want two different size 20 inch tires on my car. I prefer the 19 inch same size tires so I can rotate them to last longer. Also the 19" tires preform better too.

My new 1973 Camaro was an LT with the Z28 option. It had the Z28 engine, the wheels and the spoiler. I kept that car 10 years. My wife had a 1976 new rally sport that she kept 8 years. Then I had to move on as the style didn't excite me anymore. The Firebird did however.

Anyway, sorry if I upset you. I just didn't explain myself good enough. I apologize for that. I do thank you for your loyal service and enthusiasm for the Camaro.

[cbass]

Originally Posted by Thrillz

Here is one of the polls on this site that's telling you how the people here feel about the new change's. Do you not find this alarming with this kind of negative feedback from the enthusiasts?
Attachment 491683

The numbers aren't great, but that was an initial reaction to some blurry pictures of the rear end.

I guess the question is if you were in the market for a camaro, but haven't purchased one would the refresh steer you to another car? I don't think many people would buy a different car because of the refresh changes.

[MackMan]

Originally Posted by Bad@ssCamaro

Thank you for the insightful remarks in the 1st post, some were witty and had me I love your sense of humor and wit, very refreshing. There is no doubt as to why you are "Fbodfather" A lot of responsibility to be the "custodian of the brand" and I can only imagine the pressure of that role and I don't think that there could be any other that could fit that role. I'm sure you've heard that many times (it's always good to hear though, right?)

It's always appreciative to get it from the horse's mouth(so to speak) about the history and lineage of the Camaro from someone who's lived it. As I read through your posts, it really puts things in perspective about the Z/ that I never understood until lately. It's what every boy that grew up watching racing and wanting to be a part of and having something that is or will make you feel like you're part of something special. What GM did back then (60's) with that car was something special and unique and those that knew or found out wanted to be a part of it, but it came at a price. It left others to dream and create their own versions, thus the plethora of clones and tribute cars.

And now it's starting over again, a chance for a new generation to experience the same. I can't wait to see how the new Z/28 will create and unfold a new legend. Bravo and kudos to the 12 disciples and the rest of the Camaro team for doing so.

Nicely put.

Very good read and very informative. Thanks for posting this, clearing up some things and teaching me the history of the Z28..Z/28. Can't wait to see the new 2014s in person. Thanks for all you do, Fbodfather.

[90503]

Originally Posted by Thrillz

Here is one of the polls on this site that's telling you how the people here feel about the new change's. Do you not find this alarming with this kind of negative feedback from the enthusiasts?
Attachment 491683

Camaro "Enthusiasts" don't watch the "Kathy and Michael Show"...lol..

[oldchevyguy]

Originally Posted by Thrillz

Here is one of the polls on this site that's telling you how the people here feel about the new change's. Do you not find this alarming with this kind of negative feedback from the enthusiasts?
Attachment 491683

Just because people vote in a poll doesn't necessarily make them an enthusiast or someone who has interest in owning a Camaro

[bdstealth]

Scott let me say thank you again for my 2010 R6P Camaro bought it without even sitting in one.I think the Z/28 is sweet.Love the on RS lights.Tell everyone to keep up the good work.Thank you again for your hard work.
Brian proud owner of a SW SS R6P

[SilverSurfer21]

Originally Posted by Bad@ssCamaro

As an engineer one would think you would know the difference between inspiration and replication, as you allude to about the taillights. Like Scott said some people will like and some won't, you're one of them. That's fine, doesn't mean the watering down process has begun until the sales says otherwise, you and others can speculate all you want, but the truth of it all won't be recognized until the #'s are there.

And if you were a GM engineer, weren't you part of the "watering down" process?. How would you feel if someone insulted your work?

When you are in this business you have to have thick skin. I am sure Scott knows this very well. He also knows that you can't please everyone. Can't be done. The sales will be the the judge. If sales fall then they know they goofed. If they remain high, then it was a success. Time will tell.

[SilverSurfer21]

Originally Posted by oldchevyguy

Just because people vote in a poll doesn't necessarily make them an enthusiast or someone who has interest in owning a Camaro

Those are people from this site. Camaro owners! Not random people.

[Angrybird 12]

Originally Posted by Thrillz

Here is one of the polls on this site that's telling you how the people here feel about the new change's. Do you not find this alarming with this kind of negative feedback from the enthusiasts?
Attachment 491683

That pole was started just after the fuzzy poor screenshots taken from the TV show. Most of the votes in that pole were made BEFORE the official reveal.
Start a new pole today and I bet it would get different results.

[radametz]

Scott,

First of all, a very well thought-out and well executed post here. I always look forward to your input on Camaro news and this did not disappoint. Like you, I was a little disturbed by some of a the comments on here a few days ago. I don't mind if people don't like the design (it's going to happen) but saying that people should be fired (or worse) was well out of line.

A little bit of history: When the 2013 1LE was announced on this site, I saw a lot of nay-sayers saying there was no way that car could compete with the Boss 302. I came to the 1LE's defense saying that the same comments were made about the ZL1 because of its weight. Well after I commented, you took the time to write a simple "God Bless you" to me, and I'll never forget that. It was at that moment that I really understood how much you guys love designing/building these cars and how much passion you take in your work, and how much you guys appreciate people acknowledging the hard work and strenuous hours you put into your jobs. Honestly, I can't think of another car that has a team as dedicated as you guys to putting out the best product you can. For that, I (and a lot of other people on this site) can't thank you enough.

Sure, the 2014 refresh will have its haters but as you said, the production version of the Camaro did as well, and I guess you could say it did "alright" in the sales department (Read: ). Honestly, I think you guys hit this one out of the park. The front end looks awesome, the functional hood extractor on the SS, 1LE, and Z/28 is badass, and while I didn't love the tail-end at first, it's quickly growing on me and I'm starting to . I can't wait to see some 2014's out on the roads, and I'm hoping you guys bring that Z/28 with you to C5Fest...hinthint, nudgenudge.

In closing, I can't thank you and your coworkers enough for what you do. The Camaro is an awesome car, and we're all extremely grateful to have them in our driveways/garages. Oh, and I stayed true to my post in the 1LE thread:

Personally, I'm extremely excited for this car, and I'm glad that I decided to wait for the 2013 model year to buy my Camaro. Now I have to decide if I want to add the 1LE package to my SS. If the price is right, Chevy might have one of their first buyers right here Decisions, decisions...

I got in the first batch of 1LE's built and I've been grinning ever since (especially now that we're getting some warmer weather in NJ. Keep up the great work, Scott!!!

-Rudy