Sway bars 2010 SS - Stay with what i have

[oachalon]

Hi everyone,

This is the winter I actually work on the suspension.

In 2010 i bought BMR Cradle bushings, BMR trailing arms, and then at the time PFADT sport sway bars front and rear. They all have been sitting in my basement brand new in box.

I went the route of power before suspension, and now that I have a lift in my garage, I can finally work on the suspension after 9 years.

I have already decided to sell the BMR cradle bushings (when i unbury them) and go with the Solids from AFE. The trailing arms i am definitely keeping and installing. Now to the PFAFT sway bars. Do i use them and install them with the pre 2012 sway bar location, or do i sell them get the updated LCA and do something else.

What is the most cost effective setup on a 2010 SS with staggered tire setup (315 in rear and 285 in front). This is a 100% street car. My searches sometimes show just replacing with a JPSS rear but looks like he is out of business, and then talks of replacing with 1LE setup, but i dont have a square setup.

Looking for everyone's thoughts. Would i see a substantial difference selling the current parts and switching to new or just use what i have?

[Avenging Orange]

GM parts house used to sell the ZL1 rear sway with LCA's for like $300. Includes all you need to convert. Be (will be) my choice.

[1fast]

Originally Posted by oachalon

Hi everyone,

This is the winter I actually work on the suspension.

In 2010 i bought BMR Cradle bushings, BMR trailing arms, and then at the time PFADT sport sway bars front and rear. They all have been sitting in my basement brand new in box.

I went the route of power before suspension, and now that I have a lift in my garage, I can finally work on the suspension after 9 years.

I have already decided to sell the BMR cradle bushings (when i unbury them) and go with the Solids from AFE. The trailing arms i am definitely keeping and installing. Now to the PFAFT sway bars. Do i use them and install them with the pre 2012 sway bar location, or do i sell them get the updated LCA and do something else.

What is the most cost effective setup on a 2010 SS with staggered tire setup (315 in rear and 285 in front). This is a 100% street car. My searches sometimes show just replacing with a JPSS rear but looks like he is out of business, and then talks of replacing with 1LE setup, but i dont have a square setup.

Looking for everyone's thoughts. Would i see a substantial difference selling the current parts and switching to new or just use what i have?

Keep your BMR sub frame bushing I've run and tested many parts and bar has worked great on our gen 5. Theirs many other factors with suspension setup like a good alignment.

Is car lowered or not along with tires type of shock biggest is adjustable rear sway or what I call anti roll bar. You are making some big torque which makes harder to put down on street.

You will read 10 different suggestion and 10 different answers. but find some one that has proven time slip and street time and be paitence with suspension does take time to dial in.

[gtstorey]

Originally Posted by oachalon

What is the most cost effective setup on a 2010 SS with staggered tire setup (315 in rear and 285 in front). This is a 100% street car. My searches sometimes show just replacing with a JPSS rear but looks like he is out of business, and then talks of replacing with 1LE setup, but i dont have a square setup.

Is this more of a straight line speed or curvy backroad type thing. If curvy, start buying GM Z28 suspension parts.

[olblue75]

I’m running a set of old PAFDT bushings an no complaints with a 1LE front bar and JPSS 32mm rear bar but going to change to the DSE 35mm hollow bar for the weight savings hopefully it’s just as good as the solid. Definitely go with updated arms there was a lot of problem in the early days of ripped sway bar links mount tab.

[VR Baron]

Originally Posted by olblue75

I’m running a set of old PAFDT bushings an no complaints with a 1LE front bar and JPSS 32mm rear bar but going to change to the DSE 35mm hollow bar for the weight savings hopefully it’s just as good as the solid. Definitely go with updated arms there was a lot of problem in the early days of ripped sway bar links mount tab.

I had the Pedders bars and supercars. But for me autocrossing on our less then stellar parking lot , the bars are to stiff. Well the 32 bar anyway. Four of us run dse bars on soft. Springs are 300/550 dse or Ridetechs. Stiff front bar setting and middle rear is about max, and on the edge of corner exit oversteer. In fact I leave it soft rear and trying stiff front. Not sure size wise that is to Pedders, but I bet soft is about like a 30 mm solid

[oachalon]

In regards to all of the comments above:

I am going with solid AFE bushings over the BMR bushings for the rear cradle. Decided just a couple days ago to do that.

I remember seeing issues with the ripped sway bar mounting tabs. BMR sells those strengthening tabs for $40.00 if i stick with running the PFADT bars.

This is what i could find on these PFADT sway bars:


Weights:

Front ARB:

OE FE3 Weight - 7.5 lb
Pfadt Sport ARB - 10.6 lb

Rear ARB:
OE FE3 Weight - 5 lb
Pfadt Sport ARB - 12.25 lb

From PFADT:

The front bar in our system is a solid tubular bar and the O.D. is 15/16", we did this for ultimate performance, packaging space and durability. The rear bar is 1 3/8" and it is a hollow tubular bar with 3 adjustments. They are both made in the USA with high grade Steel and they were designed for ultimate performance and durability. The ends are machined where most bars are pinched and it is a much nicer set up. In terms of weight they add roughly 4 pounds to the overall package, larger bars usually mean more weight. The bars are finished with a silver powder coating and they include front and rear greasable graphite impregnated poly bushings and brackets. We achieved balance and roll reduction by increasing the rate of the rear bar significantly and the front bar moderately. The steering response is greatly improved and the overall fun factor is increased 10 fold. When I drove the Camaro stock it was OK and when we added the bars it was like a totally different car. It felt much smaller and more responsive.

End PFAFT response.

This is going to be more of a curvy back road type thing. Currently no plans for autocrossing, but you never know.

Tires are Michelin Pilot Super Sports, 315 rear 285 front.

Car is not lowered, no plans to lower, and the car is on stock springs and struts.

Not looking for anything extreme, just looking for a good reliable setup that is pretty neutral.

[Matty Ice]

Since you have the parts already, install them and see how you like it. If you want something more/different, then get something different. It's a slippery slope. Upgrading the springs and struts will make a huge difference.

[oachalon]

I think thats what i am leaning towards as well. Already have them, why not use them and see what happens.

[mikeman]

Originally Posted by olblue75

I’m running a set of old PAFDT bushings an no complaints with a 1LE front bar and JPSS 32mm rear bar but going to change to the DSE 35mm hollow bar for the weight savings hopefully it’s just as good as the solid. Definitely go with updated arms there was a lot of problem in the early days of ripped sway bar links mount tab.

No, I dont think it will be. I remember Justice Pete stating that a 27mm solid is equal to a 32mm hollow or something like that. So, that would mean the JPSS 32mm solid is like a 37mm hollow. If you get the DSE 35mm hollow, that would mean a downgrade in lateral stiffness except for weight.

[olblue75]

Originally Posted by mikeman

No, I dont think it will be. I remember Justice Pete stating that a 27mm solid is equal to a 32mm hollow or something like that. So, that would mean the JPSS 32mm solid is like a 37mm hollow. If you get the DSE 35mm hollow, that would mean a downgrade in lateral stiffness except for weight.

Don’t think 2mm would make that much difference plus the weight difference is huge.

[VR Baron]

Originally Posted by mikeman

No, I dont think it will be. I remember Justice Pete stating that a 27mm solid is equal to a 32mm hollow or something like that. So, that would mean the JPSS 32mm solid is like a 37mm hollow. If you get the DSE 35mm hollow, that would mean a downgrade in lateral stiffness except for weight.

Close, but 32 solid is like a 35 hollow set on the stiff setting. Or maybe stiffer? A friend who autocross with a 1le had to set the dse 35mm rear bar from stiff to the middle position, with the 27 mm solid front bar. If not the car badly oversteered and power couldn’t be put down off of turns. Others have said same

[mikeman]

Originally Posted by VR Baron

Close, but 32 solid is like a 35 hollow set on the stiff setting. Or maybe stiffer? A friend who autocross with a 1le had to set the dse 35mm rear bar from stiff to the middle position, with the 27 mm solid front bar. If not the car badly oversteered and power couldn’t be put down off of turns. Others have said same

That's weird. I remember Justice Pete saying that a 4-5 mm bias between bars was the sweet spot for max handing abilities on these cars with a square setup. The 1LE with a staggered setup was designed for more understeer as a safety factor from GM. So, you'd need a skinnier front bar or fatter rear bar to dial in more oversteer.

Well, at least that's the way I understood it.

[VR Baron]

Originally Posted by mikeman

That's weird. I remember Justice Pete saying that a 4-5 mm bias between bars was the sweet spot for max handing abilities on these cars with a square setup. The 1LE with a staggered setup was designed for more understeer as a safety factor from GM. So, you'd need a skinnier front bar or fatter rear bar to dial in more oversteer.

Well, at least that's the way I understood it.

Yeah that’s what he said. And pretty close depending on what setup you prefer. The dse rear bar best guess is like a 32 solid on the stiff position, center spot maybe like 31mm. Pete told me soft position like a 30mm.
Not much data out there to know so it’s my best mathematical estimate based on all I have read, swaybar stiffness charts and my own setup experience over eight years of autocross.

1le 27 front bar and mid hole on dse rear works good. Several have said that. The stiff hole on the dse rear bar made cars oversteer on corner exit and probably lifts a inside rear wheel. One reason GM stays with s 28mm rear bar with softer stock springs. None of us using 300/550 springs with Ridetech or dse coilovers, and dse swaybars, can use the rear bar on stiff without having terminal oversteer.

And the 1le has staggered wheels, but the rear tire is same as front and really stretched, adding some oversteer potentially. Even Pete said using the 32rear bar with the 1le front would be getting into oversteer if not watched. If you like oversteer, you’re good to go.

From my experience in autocross: 459/550 Pedders spring rates and staggered tires, 26/32 bars worked great, 6mm bias.
Square tire setup, 27/32 works good.
But if springs ratio more like stock or drop springs, like my 300/550 ratio for example, 27/31 is about it, or use 4mm bias. All can be fine tuned with coilover shock adjustment if you have those.
And of course, all in what you like and is best for you