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Old 07-19-2012, 11:59 AM   #43
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anyone who takes 10 hours to install headers and exhaust probably shouldnt be tuning your car... my exhaust was put in in about 1.5 hours with me and my dad... havent got headers yet so we will see how long that takes
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Old 07-19-2012, 12:05 PM   #44
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I just called Performance Autosport and spoke to Jimmy. I asked him to clarify if the 10 hours was for the exhaust install or if that included the Pedders also. He said it was just for the exhaust LOL.

I told him that everyone is telling me it is a 2-4 hour job and even other speed shops like Maryland Speed are saying that. He said "Ya and they sell parts, they don't actually do any work. If anyone tells you they can put headers on a Camaro in 3 hours the are full of shit and you will see what kind of job you get. Look I don't need the work, I have 6 months booked up and 34 cars waiting to be worked on." So I told him your attitude sucks I will take my business elsewhere! I'm not a high roller by any means, but he just lost a $1,200 job and a new customer who likes to blow money LOL!
WOW. What a jackass.
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Old 07-19-2012, 12:14 PM   #45
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Originally Posted by JRT View Post
I just called Performance Autosport and spoke to Jimmy. I asked him to clarify if the 10 hours was for the exhaust install or if that included the Pedders also. He said it was just for the exhaust LOL.

I told him that everyone is telling me it is a 2-4 hour job and even other speed shops like Maryland Speed are saying that. He said "Ya and they sell parts, they don't actually do any work. If anyone tells you they can put headers on a Camaro in 3 hours the are full of shit and you will see what kind of job you get. Look I don't need the work, I have 6 months booked up and 34 cars waiting to be worked on." So I told him your attitude sucks I will take my business elsewhere! I'm not a high roller by any means, but he just lost a $1,200 job and a new customer who likes to blow money LOL!
Actually..we do do installs, and we have customers who have been out of our shop in 2 hours with a Kooks header install. These are members here who have posted feedback here. 3 hours with dyno, and quicko budget tune. As far as "what kind of work you get"....it's remove and replace. You can't really mess it up.

That being said, it truly is a two way street. Customers like to think that they pretty much control things..and everyone should fight for their money. But if what he said was true, and he has 34 cars, and 6 months worth of work lined up..one would assume others are paying that much for service. If someone is paying you X amount to do a service, and you are plenty busy..why would you discount it to install a product you don't want to work with anyway?

Just playing the devil's advocate here...
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Old 07-19-2012, 12:23 PM   #46
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Actually..we do do installs, and we have customers who have been out of our shop in 2 hours with a Kooks header install. These are members here who have posted feedback here. 3 hours with dyno, and quicko budget tune. As far as "what kind of work you get"....it's remove and replace. You can't really mess it up.

That being said, it truly is a two way street. Customers like to think that they pretty much control things..and everyone should fight for their money. But if what he said was true, and he has 34 cars, and 6 months worth of work lined up..one would assume others are paying that much for service. If someone is paying you X amount to do a service, and you are plenty busy..why would you discount it to install a product you don't want to work with anyway?

Just playing the devil's advocate here...
I'm with Brandon on this as well.....3 hours tops if the customer is around and asks questions/takes pictures during the install. Once you have done a few of them, it is like breathing and just becomes something that you know how to do on the Camaro.

One thing I'd add is that if guy has 34 cars and 6 months of work lined up he needs to a.)hire some help or b.)get better at what he does to make sure those waiting that long actually show up and come back for more services/products later.

I don't even think that Andy or Ted have folks waiting for 6 months for anything...and we all know how great both of those fellas are at what they do.

Hell, Eric at HKE doesn't even have a 6 month wait.....well. Sometimes.

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Old 07-19-2012, 12:30 PM   #47
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Originally Posted by Ivan @ Southwest Speed View Post
I'm with Brandon on this as well.....3 hours tops if the customer is around and asks questions/takes pictures during the install. Once you have done a few of them, it is like breathing and just becomes something that you know how to do on the Camaro.

One thing I'd add is that if guy has 34 cars and 6 months of work lined up he needs to a.)hire some help or b.)get better at what he does to make sure those waiting that long actually show up and come back for more services/products later.

I don't even think that Andy or Ted have folks waiting for 6 months for anything...and we all know how great both of those fellas are at what they do.

Hell, Eric at HKE doesn't even have a 6 month wait.....well. Sometimes.

Ivan
I have no knowlege of the specific shop he is referring to. However I do know plenty of shops that have 1-2 mechanincs, and a lift or two..and are perfectly fine that way. This is a highly seasonal business..and subject to crazy swings. If you owned a business..would you rather charge high prices, keep overhead low, and stay backed up.....or would you rather add a bunch of overhead to be able to handle a lot of work..then have to discount or wait it out when demand slacks. Again..people won't wait several months for a shop that is not known for doing good work. Again..not defending the particular shop in question...but there is some value in not being the local McWrench.
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Old 07-19-2012, 01:53 PM   #48
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If I owned a business... I would be upfront, honest, and respectful to everyone! There is no excuse for his attitude and treatment of possible clients. His actions cannot be justified.
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Old 07-19-2012, 01:56 PM   #49
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Agree with all, 10 hours is way to much time for a professional shop to do. I did mine on my own, in my garage using jack stands in four hours.
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Old 07-19-2012, 01:58 PM   #50
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I think a safe average is 4-5 hours on headers and connection pipes and 1 hour additional for a cat back.

Most shops are willing to be flexible to a certain level.

Good luck
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Old 07-19-2012, 02:02 PM   #51
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Originally Posted by MarylandSpeed View Post
I have no knowlege of the specific shop he is referring to. However I do know plenty of shops that have 1-2 mechanincs, and a lift or two..and are perfectly fine that way. This is a highly seasonal business..and subject to crazy swings. If you owned a business..would you rather charge high prices, keep overhead low, and stay backed up.....or would you rather add a bunch of overhead to be able to handle a lot of work..then have to discount or wait it out when demand slacks. Again..people won't wait several months for a shop that is not known for doing good work. Again..not defending the particular shop in question...but there is some value in not being the local McWrench.
I may be misunderstanding your comment, but if he is backed up, that should not be charged to the customer. Only wrench turning time should be charged.
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Old 07-19-2012, 02:10 PM   #52
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I may be misunderstanding your comment, but if he is backed up, that should not be charged to the customer. Only wrench turning time should be charged.
He is not saying that at all.

He is saying that charging a higher price will reduce demand as less and less people are willing to pay that price. If you can reduce demand (sales volume) but maintain revenue with your higher price it seems better than charging a lower price to attract more customers all the while needing more employees and lifts, etc to service the extra volume, charging less, spending more.

It works for Wal Mart but they also deal with a very different clientele than say, Bloomingdales..... Wal Mart could carry high end stuff if they really wanted to, they could also easily just raise prices on what they have. Doing either will cause less traffic in the store, the math has to work out and the same or greater revenue has to be generated.

It depends on if you want to deal with Deliverance or Hilton. Both types are pains in the ass. Pick your poison. As long as you bring home some bacon, that's what matters. Where you get the pigs is personal preference.

Marketing Rule #1 - Find a need and fill it.
Marketing Rule #2 - Location, ....

You understand where you are, what the people want where you are and you do that. You charge that. If you try to sell Patek Phillipe watches in Carrizo Springs, TX you will starve. If you try to sell Swatches in Beverly Hills you will starve.
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Old 07-19-2012, 02:48 PM   #53
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Got it, thanks.

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Originally Posted by Higgs Boson View Post
He is not saying that at all.

He is saying that charging a higher price will reduce demand as less and less people are willing to pay that price. If you can reduce demand (sales volume) but maintain revenue with your higher price it seems better than charging a lower price to attract more customers all the while needing more employees and lifts, etc to service the extra volume, charging less, spending more.

It works for Wal Mart but they also deal with a very different clientele than say, Bloomingdales..... Wal Mart could carry high end stuff if they really wanted to, they could also easily just raise prices on what they have. Doing either will cause less traffic in the store, the math has to work out and the same or greater revenue has to be generated.

It depends on if you want to deal with Deliverance or Hilton. Both types are pains in the ass. Pick your poison. As long as you bring home some bacon, that's what matters. Where you get the pigs is personal preference.

Marketing Rule #1 - Find a need and fill it.
Marketing Rule #2 - Location, ....

You understand where you are, what the people want where you are and you do that. You charge that. If you try to sell Patek Phillipe watches in Carrizo Springs, TX you will starve. If you try to sell Swatches in Beverly Hills you will starve.
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Old 07-19-2012, 02:51 PM   #54
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It depends on if you want to deal with Deliverance or Hilton. Both types are pains in the ass. Pick your poison. As long as you bring home some bacon, that's what matters. Where you get the pigs is personal preference.
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Old 07-19-2012, 02:56 PM   #55
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Exactly. Bottom line is, the shop wanted more for their time than the customer wants to pay. No show here...time to move on. Though the original premise of the thread is correct that a quote of 10 hours is pretty out there. We are local, and can help the customer if he wants..but we also are picky about installing parts that did not come from us.

Quote:
Originally Posted by Higgs Boson View Post
He is not saying that at all.

He is saying that charging a higher price will reduce demand as less and less people are willing to pay that price. If you can reduce demand (sales volume) but maintain revenue with your higher price it seems better than charging a lower price to attract more customers all the while needing more employees and lifts, etc to service the extra volume, charging less, spending more.

It works for Wal Mart but they also deal with a very different clientele than say, Bloomingdales..... Wal Mart could carry high end stuff if they really wanted to, they could also easily just raise prices on what they have. Doing either will cause less traffic in the store, the math has to work out and the same or greater revenue has to be generated.

It depends on if you want to deal with Deliverance or Hilton. Both types are pains in the ass. Pick your poison. As long as you bring home some bacon, that's what matters. Where you get the pigs is personal preference.

Marketing Rule #1 - Find a need and fill it.
Marketing Rule #2 - Location, ....

You understand where you are, what the people want where you are and you do that. You charge that. If you try to sell Patek Phillipe watches in Carrizo Springs, TX you will starve. If you try to sell Swatches in Beverly Hills you will starve.
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Old 07-19-2012, 03:22 PM   #56
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MarylandSpeed is right on I think.

I try not to refuse business due to the unwanted risk of a high risk client so to speak. What I'll do with outside product is have them sign a waver saying that he is coming to us at his own risk and if we assume no responsibility after the service.

I go a step further and tell them that we will do our best work but even if we mess your product up we hold not liability. It is meant to desuade them form coming and of course if WE were the fault we'd take care of them but sometimes the business isn't worth the risk.

Not saying that's the case with the OP here.

I always went to Big10 tires here in Bama. I'd buy my filter and Mobile1 oil and they'd charge me to do it. Well they are now PepBoys and the policy is no outside parts. Fair enough. Well I asked for Mobile1 and he told me 29.00 PER QUART. Yes, I had him double check that, but the competing companies full synthetic was only 8.00 per quart. Obviously someone had a deal made with PepBoys.

Thing is it does seem like this shop for whatever reason just doesn't want to install the headers and exhaust.

I'd ask them about it.




Quote:
Originally Posted by Higgs Boson View Post
He is not saying that at all.

He is saying that charging a higher price will reduce demand as less and less people are willing to pay that price. If you can reduce demand (sales volume) but maintain revenue with your higher price it seems better than charging a lower price to attract more customers all the while needing more employees and lifts, etc to service the extra volume, charging less, spending more.

It works for Wal Mart but they also deal with a very different clientele than say, Bloomingdales..... Wal Mart could carry high end stuff if they really wanted to, they could also easily just raise prices on what they have. Doing either will cause less traffic in the store, the math has to work out and the same or greater revenue has to be generated.

It depends on if you want to deal with Deliverance or Hilton. Both types are pains in the ass. Pick your poison. As long as you bring home some bacon, that's what matters. Where you get the pigs is personal preference.

Marketing Rule #1 - Find a need and fill it.
Marketing Rule #2 - Location, ....

You understand where you are, what the people want where you are and you do that. You charge that. If you try to sell Patek Phillipe watches in Carrizo Springs, TX you will starve. If you try to sell Swatches in Beverly Hills you will starve.


The old saying "It's hard to find good help" is true.

I've dealt with this. You don't want to run the risk of craftsmanship or workmanship and service levels getting complacent. Not saying they don't want to build but installing exhaust systems is not a big demand to begin with.

One of the reasons I'm stuck with little to no shops here is because shops here have found they can make more money and have less problems to just stick to normal shop business. I've been told by shops that they dont' do performance work anymore because it's a higher risk of problems and a pickier clientele and takes longer to do the work with all the different aftermarket equipment.
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