02-08-2011, 10:58 AM | #1 |
Richmond Gear
Drives: Camaro Join Date: Jul 2010
Location: Liberty, SC
Posts: 6
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Richmond Gear Camaro gears
2010 Camaro Failures: I am not going to get into a debate on this or any other forum but I felt the need to correct some of the misinformation that is being spread here. So here are some facts. Richmond Gear has been producing street gears for the 2010 Camaro since December of 2009. These gears are designed for street use and are not drag race gears. Dedicated drag race gears are made from a different type steel (much more expensive). They are heat treated differently and are not suitable for street use. Drag race gears are softer and the steel provides a softer core so that when launched the gear will flex rather than break. As with all things in physics, there is no free lunch. Designs suitable for the drag strip do live on the street. In many gears we offer both street and "pro" gears. As an example, in a Ford 9" we offer both street and "pro" gears. The "pro" gears are designed for drag race use only. We do not offer a drag race gear for the 2010 Camaro. Most of the Camaros are daily drivers so it would not make sense to limit use to the strip only.
This gear set is for all practical purposes a 8.5 inch rear in an aluminum housing. It cannot take unlimited horsepower. The gear set is not designed for drag racing. From a design standpoint this gear is very similar in design, size and tooth geometry to the Chrysler H215 used in the 2008/2009 Challenger and Charger. The main difference is the cast iron housing on the Chrysler vs. the aluminum housing on the Camaro. We have had no similar failures on the Chrysler sets. While there is no definitive proof, we suspect the housing is flexing when the car is launched and this allows the gears to be run out of position. This in turn, puts excess loads on a small area of the gear teeth and they crack. The cracking may result in immediate failure, it may fail driving home from the track or it may fail sometime later. The first Camaro diffs came with a steel strap across the carrier caps. We assume this was done for strength. They have since stopped adding the strap. Jannetty Racing is offering billet steel caps. This will add some rigidity to the housing. He has reported running over 700hp at the strip with no failures. It has also been reported to us that the GM repair manual calls for a case spreader to be used when assembling the carrier into the housing. This would allow for the proper amount of shim to be more easily installed. It would also put some stress into the case that could counteract the stresses induced during loading of the gear set. How many installers even have a case spreader let alone used one? It is critical that the installer knows how to install these gears and it is clear that not all do. At some point all gears will fail. No gear has unlimited life. This car/differential was never designed for the drag strip. Part of racing is finding the weak link. That is why top fuel drag racers now use 12 inch rear ends when just a few short years ago they were running 9.5 inch gears. In conclusion, there is no design, steel or metallurgical problem with the Richmond Camaro gears. Richmond Gear stands behind our gears. I chose to warranty the first failures for two reasons, first I didn’t want the people on the leading edge of technology to get burned just because they were first to try something and secondly because I wanted to make sure we were not missing something in the design. I am convinced we did not miss anything. The 4.10 design was chosen to be a quite street gear and it is performing well in many cars. We have decided to offer a stronger design in the 4.11 ratio. The tooth geometry is stronger and we chose to use a premium material. These gears are still heat treated for the street and not the drag strip. These gears do cost more but they are stronger. All gears will fail as some point. If you put enough horsepower to them and can get the traction you can break anything. If there is enough demand for a "drag only" gear we can make them. That would not be a problem but they will not live on the street. Much of the information about these gears on this and other forums is just plain wrong. Even some forum members with the facts have misstated them. Again, I don’t intend to debate this here or anywhere else but I did want to get the facts out there. Thanks for using Richmond. |
02-08-2011, 11:23 AM | #2 |
Drives: 2009 Dodge "Cuda", 2010 Camaro Join Date: Nov 2010
Location: St. Pete, Fl.
Posts: 120
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Thank you for your post.
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02-08-2011, 11:30 AM | #3 |
Drives: Nothing Fun. Join Date: Aug 2009
Location: CT
Posts: 1,052
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Nice post. This should clear up somethings!
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02-08-2011, 11:30 AM | #4 | |
Drives: Nothing Fun. Join Date: Aug 2009
Location: CT
Posts: 1,052
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Quote:
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02-08-2011, 11:31 AM | #5 |
BAMF SS
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Way to shed some light on the situation!
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02-08-2011, 11:53 AM | #6 |
Account Suspended
Drives: 89 IROC 350 Join Date: Mar 2009
Location: Back roads, southern Ohio
Posts: 12,504
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Guys,
That was a stand up company's post right there!!!! EVERYTHING you claim makes sense and is much more clear to us that wondered WTF happened! I can say, without hesitation, the 4.10 gears were my favorite mod I had done to my car. I am NOT a race car driver. I am sure my lack of experience could have contributed to my failure along with the reasons stated here. Thank you for officially coming out and making a statement as to why we were seeing failures,at the track and off. ~Jason |
02-08-2011, 12:17 PM | #7 |
BAMF SS
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Incorrect.
According to this thread http://www.camaro5.com/forums/showth...highlight=4.11 and what Richmond just said, there is no "improved" 4.10 design. It was never flawed to begin with. The improved and stronger 4.11 design IS a different part number (89-0003-1). It can easily be identified by it (the 4.11's) having 37 ring gear teeth, and 9 pinion teeth, as opposed to the 4.10 design, which has 41 ring gear teeth and 10 pinion teeth.
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02-08-2011, 12:26 PM | #8 | |
Drives: Nothing Fun. Join Date: Aug 2009
Location: CT
Posts: 1,052
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Quote:
We had a set direct from Richmond early on and it didn't have the new part number. |
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02-08-2011, 12:57 PM | #9 |
Chevrolet across the USA
Drives: ABM 2SS/RS 66 SS396 Chevelle Join Date: Oct 2008
Location: Colorado
Posts: 115
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Great info! Nice to see an answer to all the rumors and speculation. Thanks RichmondGear
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02-08-2011, 01:01 PM | #10 |
Drives: 2SS/RS Join Date: May 2009
Location: Texas
Posts: 586
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So if we install the 4.10, we shouldnt go to the strip? What if you launch it on the street? Whats the point in changing the gear if you cant realy use it? Is it just to say you have it? Not trying to be a smart ass or anything but im just wondering cause I planned to install the 4.10s and I go to the track about twice a month.
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02-08-2011, 03:23 PM | #11 |
Drives: 2010 Black 1SS Join Date: Aug 2009
Location: Langley BC
Posts: 666
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While I really appreciate finally hearing everything from the company themselves... in the end I've concluded that they are expensive and will break eventually.
A 9" Sounds more appealing each day. don't take this as an insult to your product... more of an insult to the overall design in a performance car
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02-08-2011, 03:56 PM | #12 |
Drives: 2011 Challenger SRT8 6.4L 392 Hemi Join Date: Jul 2010
Location: Smyrna, TN
Posts: 778
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I sent a PM with a question about the 4:10 gears.
Thanks in advance for your time.
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02-08-2011, 05:21 PM | #13 |
Drives: 2000 Camaro SS Join Date: Feb 2010
Location: Louisville, Ky.
Posts: 25,179
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Good to finally see it all laid out there.
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02-08-2011, 06:26 PM | #14 |
Drives: 2010 Camaro 2SS/RS Join Date: Mar 2008
Location: S.W. Florida
Posts: 6,294
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Richond gears for the 2010 Camaro are not made for drag racing.
Aftermarket gears not made for drag racing are like hamburgers not made for eating. |
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Tags |
camaro gears, richmond, their gears suck |
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