Does the 5th Gen get "Ice Mode" issue like the 6th Gen?

[trophy hunter]

Had a 6th Gen and they do indeed have this issue under certain conditions....and autocross brings it out.
..... computer doesn't like certain, abrupt loads (usually under left foot braking and turning) and thus causes the brakes to act like brake fade or your on ice

Does the 5th Gen have this same characteristic ?

If there are any fellow autocross members - I would really appreciate feedback

[Nick S]

Yes it can happen in 5th gens as well. I have had it happen in my 1LE during autocross. It reminds me that I'm being to quick with the brake pedal. I feel it is more of a driver brake application technique issue.

You cannot just mash the brake pedal from 0% to 100% instantly. You have to learn to squeeze your brake pedal (quickly but not instantly).

Mashing the brakes quickly isn't very effective anyhow because you will just lock the wheels up since there is no time for weight to transfer to the front.

[cdb95z28]

I've had it happen to me also in my '14 1LE. On the road course. A fast off throttle to on brake pedal can bring it on. I had it happen last year when I was running Pilot Sport Cup 2 with Raybestos ST43 pads. Something about that tire and my brake technique didn't work well. I am probably a little bit aggressive with the application of the brakes, but when I run the Goodyear 3R, there is no issue. Same with the RE-71R, no instances of Ice Mode.

[jksynergy]

Yep, 5th gens are notorious for ICE mode. Have had it happen quite a few times. All in autocross events, never on a road course. It's an issue with throttle application then sudden brake applications. It's mostly when accelerating hard then hitting the brakes and the rear tires have limited grip. Like a previous poster said, gentle brake application helps. I left foot brake so I blame myself most the time.

Sent from my SM-T377T using Tapatalk

[CamaroDreams76]

Yep it happens in the 5th gen....... during Autocross as well.

[Alpha11]

This robbed me of my best time at an event yesterday. Any way to reduce the likelihood of it. It sounds like drivers mods help, plenty of room for improvement there.

[Lonewolf583]

The brake pad is also a big tuning lever for the ice-mode in my opinion. Noticed it a lot more with a more aggressive "Auto-X"-type low temperature pad. Always a tradeoff.

[cmack]

I am thinking this is what happen to me on road course. The pedal was super hard and didn't do sh*t for stopping the car. I was thinking maybe the booster was giving me trouble or vacuum problems. After reading this now I think it was this ICE mode issue. This was full WOT to *hard* brake 115 mph to 67 (Previous laps I was about sub 50 mph in same spot) . I think I could have made the corner but decided to bail straight where I had plenty of room.

End of lap 8 into start of 9
Video Time: 27:48

https://drive.google.com/file/d/1Ht_...ew?usp=sharing

I do have a vacuum tank that I think I am still going to install. Why? Because there is annoying empty hole on drivers side where the factory airbox was.

-Chris

[Unaf-Ford-able]

Originally Posted by cmack

I am thinking this is what happen to me on road course. The pedal was super hard and didn't do sh*t for stopping the car. I was thinking maybe the booster was giving me trouble or vacuum problems. After reading this now I think it was this ICE mode issue. This was full WOT to *hard* brake 115 mph to 67 (Previous laps I was about sub 50 mph in same spot) . I think I could have made the corner but decided to bail straight where I had plenty of room.

End of lap 8 into start of 9
Video Time: 27:48

https://drive.google.com/file/d/1Ht_...ew?usp=sharing

I do have a vacuum tank that I think I am still going to install. Why? Because there is annoying empty hole on drivers side where the factory airbox was.

-Chris

Apologies for bringing this back from the dead, but was there anything to report?

[Toolie]

Not sure I understand the ICE mode issue.
Are you talking about the anti-lock brakes coming on, pulsating through the brake pedal?

[cdb95z28]

Originally Posted by Toolie

Not sure I understand the ICE mode issue.
Are you talking about the anti-lock brakes coming on, pulsating through the brake pedal?

I liken ICE Mode as a default mode of the ABS. All of the wheel speed sensors are seeing zero or disagreeable wheel speed when compared to the transmission output shaft speed. If the trans output speed is showing movement, it's obvious the car is moving. So the ABS unit will limit pressure to the calipers. I have never felt pulsating during an ICE Mode event that is seen with normal ABS intervention. Maybe it is happening so fast that the frequency is not felt in the pedal.

It is a hard pedal with limited brake pressure, which certainly could describe any other ABS event, but without the pulsation. The feel of the pedal and the experience of the driver likens it to an ABS car on a sheet of very low grip ice. Now I live in the mountains of PA, very low grip road surfaces are a common possibility during winter and I have experienced it. Even in that instance of actual ice, you may feel the ABS pulsating, with firm pedal and limited braking due to limited pressure being sent to the calipers.

The difference between potentially sliding on icy surfaces vs a surface that does have some grip potential is that even if the ABS does what it is supposed to do, the car may not be slowing enough to satisfy the driver or the ABS module. On ice, that surface is so slippery that it never gives the tires a chance to gain grip. The ABS may not have an infinite resolution that it can work in. But I think the ABS cal may play a part in whether certain models/variants/combos will have a tendency for ICE Mode to arrive easier.


I have experienced ICE Mode and normal ABS (high frequency pulsating) intervention on track. The key to safely working yourself out ICE Mode is to remain calm and release the pedal and reapply but at a "softer" rate. That has worked for me, even during a high speed braking event with a low speed corner coming up. It's amazing how the mind works in those quick decision situations. I released and reapplied at a softer rate and had normal braking. Even though the car was now slowing at a much better rate, I correctly choose to give up making the corner and kept minimal steering input in, not so much that I would spin in the grass. I went off track but had plenty of run off room to maintain control.

[Toolie]

Originally Posted by cdb95z28

I liken ICE Mode as a default mode of the ABS. All of the wheel speed sensors are seeing zero or disagreeable wheel speed when compared to the transmission output shaft speed. If the trans output speed is showing movement, it's obvious the car is moving. So the ABS unit will limit pressure to the calipers. I have never felt pulsating during an ICE Mode event that is seen with normal ABS intervention. Maybe it is happening so fast that the frequency is not felt in the pedal.

It is a hard pedal with limited brake pressure, which certainly could describe any other ABS event, but without the pulsation. The feel of the pedal and the experience of the driver likens it to an ABS car on a sheet of very low grip ice. Now I live in the mountains of PA, very low grip road surfaces are a common possibility during winter and I have experienced it. Even in that instance of actual ice, you may feel the ABS pulsating, with firm pedal and limited braking due to limited pressure being sent to the calipers.

The difference between potentially sliding on icy surfaces vs a surface that does have some grip potential is that even if the ABS does what it is supposed to do, the car may not be slowing enough to satisfy the driver or the ABS module. On ice, that surface is so slippery that it never gives the tires a chance to gain grip. The ABS may not have an infinite resolution that it can work in. But I think the ABS cal may play a part in whether certain models/variants/combos will have a tendency for ICE Mode to arrive easier.


I have experienced ICE Mode and normal ABS (high frequency pulsating) intervention on track. The key to safely working yourself out ICE Mode is to remain calm and release the pedal and reapply but at a "softer" rate. That has worked for me, even during a high speed braking event with a low speed corner coming up. It's amazing how the mind works in those quick decision situations. I released and reapplied at a softer rate and had normal braking. Even though the car was now slowing at a much better rate, I correctly choose to give up making the corner and kept minimal steering input in, not so much that I would spin in the grass. I went off track but had plenty of run off room to maintain control.

Wow, thanks for the detailed response 👍

[Tommi]

It would be interesting to test the ICE mode on a airfield or other place that has enough room. And see what happens if you brake hard and quick to get the described ice mode and you won't release the pedal and reapply it softer. Just keep the pedal pressed as hard as you can.

would the brakes start working normally after a second or two, or would it decelerate slowly to a stop with a mile long braking distance.