Bad tune?

[rberns]

So I have spoke to some tuners and they are unable to retune it until its unlocked. Other than going to the shop and begging for them to unlock it (4 hour road trip) or having them send me and new PCM and ECU that matches my VIN so I can have someone else retune it...how do I get this credit or unlock it without going to them or removing/replacing parts of the computer.

[JANNETTYRACING]

Originally Posted by rberns

So I have spoke to some tuners and they are unable to retune it until its unlocked. Other than going to the shop and begging for them to unlock it (4 hour road trip) or having them send me and new PCM and ECU that matches my VIN so I can have someone else retune it...how do I get this credit or unlock it without going to them or removing/replacing parts of the computer.

Best to try and work it out with them, and if they refuse you can always purchase a new PCM and have the dealer install it with factory tune file and start over.

Ted.

[rberns]

Originally Posted by JANNETTYRACING

Best to try and work it out with them, and if they refuse you can always purchase a new PCM and have the dealer install it with factory tune file and start over.

Ted.

That's what I'm hoping for. How much does a new pm and ecu cost? I talked to one of the tuners yesterday and he talked about a credit that cost about 125 that will unlock it. Any idea what he is talking about?

[JANNETTYRACING]

Originally Posted by rberns

That's what I'm hoping for. How much does a new pm and ecu cost? I talked to one of the tuners yesterday and he talked about a credit that cost about 125 that will unlock it. Any idea what he is talking about?

I heard that someone may be able to unlock a locked computer but never needed it.

Ted.

[MikeOD]

It may not be locked...EFILive costs $125 to license any car.

Unfortunately there's a "how to" thread on the EFILive forums where a couple guys tell everyone to drill holes in the TB's on these E38 cars to idle...it's just not necessary.

That surge is BRUTAL. I'd love to see the main spark advance table in that area.

The minimum airflow table is a way some guys cure surging...they basically force more airflow, but that gives an unwanted cruise control effect. I setup the min airflow table at idle RPM, and just a little bit higher than it for what the car needs to hold that higher RPM on a cold start...but at driving RPM's, I keep it very low. I fix the surge by fixing the problem, which is usually rapidly changing spark advance, and also usually incorrect advance.

With a stock cam, the MAP sensor readings are fairly stable, and the car doesn't jump around in the timing table much as a result. With a larger cam, at low RPM, that reading isn't so stable anymore, and thus the neighboring cells in those areas before it's "on the cam" need to be similar/the same. The VE/MAF also needs to be smooth...it needs to be correct to provide the right amount of fuel, but it needs to be smooth to have a fairly stable injector pulsewidth.

Once you can get the spark smooth and pulsewidth smooth...if there's any remaining cam reversion surge left (sometimes it's a mechanical thing), you can usually add spark advance to that "smooth" number, to make the burn a little more efficient, which usually fixes it. If that STILL doesn't fix it, you can play with the injector timing a little to be sure the fuel sprays at the right time, and then the problem will be solved.

USUALLY guys with manual transmissions notice this more, and need a tighter/cleaner tune to avoid it, because when you add a cam to a vehicle with a clutch, the car will REALLY let you know if things aren't right...it's much less common to see it with an automatic. Those of us that have spent time learning how to work with the PCM to get the desired results though...who happen to have stick shift cars...well...we can make some of the craziest camshafts run smooth as silk in these cars.

[thahemp]

Originally Posted by MikeOD

It may not be locked...EFILive costs $125 to license any car.

Unfortunately there's a "how to" thread on the EFILive forums where a couple guys tell everyone to drill holes in the TB's on these E38 cars to idle...it's just not necessary.

That surge is BRUTAL. I'd love to see the main spark advance table in that area.

The minimum airflow table is a way some guys cure surging...they basically force more airflow, but that gives an unwanted cruise control effect. I setup the min airflow table at idle RPM, and just a little bit higher than it for what the car needs to hold that higher RPM on a cold start...but at driving RPM's, I keep it very low. I fix the surge by fixing the problem, which is usually rapidly changing spark advance, and also usually incorrect advance.

With a stock cam, the MAP sensor readings are fairly stable, and the car doesn't jump around in the timing table much as a result. With a larger cam, at low RPM, that reading isn't so stable anymore, and thus the neighboring cells in those areas before it's "on the cam" need to be similar/the same. The VE/MAF also needs to be smooth...it needs to be correct to provide the right amount of fuel, but it needs to be smooth to have a fairly stable injector pulsewidth.

Once you can get the spark smooth and pulsewidth smooth...if there's any remaining cam reversion surge left (sometimes it's a mechanical thing), you can usually add spark advance to that "smooth" number, to make the burn a little more efficient, which usually fixes it. If that STILL doesn't fix it, you can play with the injector timing a little to be sure the fuel sprays at the right time, and then the problem will be solved.

USUALLY guys with manual transmissions notice this more, and need a tighter/cleaner tune to avoid it, because when you add a cam to a vehicle with a clutch, the car will REALLY let you know if things aren't right...it's much less common to see it with an automatic. Those of us that have spent time learning how to work with the PCM to get the desired results though...who happen to have stick shift cars...well...we can make some of the craziest camshafts run smooth as silk in these cars.

+1 to all that.

I can't imagine how one could be so far off and have the balls to tell someone they are a tuner. Nonsense. I'm betting the car would run better on the stock spark tables above the idle columns than it does now. I hate seeing stuff like this. It's not magic.

[rberns]

Can you remote tune with EFI live? If I had different shop tune it with EFI they could unlock it for the $125 licensing? So HP tuners can't do anything until my current shop unlocks it? I am not familiar with the tuning world.

[thahemp]

See if you can get them to flash you back to stock and give your money back. We can go from there.

[thahemp]

It's only $80 to license a car in HPT btw.

[rberns]

If I reflash it to stock how am I supposed to get the car home? It's about a 2 hour drive and from my understanding it's not a good idea with a cammed car on a stock tune.

So even though they locked it I can still buy the licensing from either EFI or HPTUNERS and have it unlocked. Is that correct?

[MikeOD]

Originally Posted by thahemp

It's only $80 to license a car in HPT btw.

2 credits...$49.99 each, $99.98. I wish it was only $80. Oh well.

[MikeOD]

Originally Posted by rberns

If I reflash it to stock how am I supposed to get the car home? It's about a 2 hour drive and from my understanding it's not a good idea with a cammed car on a stock tune.

So even though they locked it I can still buy the licensing from either EFI or HPTUNERS and have it unlocked. Is that correct?

If it's locked it's locked, and they have to unlock it. I'm just telling you that if they're saying someone can pay $125 to unlock it, then it may not actually be locked...if they locked it, it is free for them to unlock it...unless they're insisting on charging you more for the time to unlock it, and if so, good luck getting your money back from them for the messed up tune

...based on how awful that surge is, I wouldn't be surprised if they don't even know how to lock/unlock it.

If it's just tuned with EITHER package, either software can still work with it just fine.

I just can't believe it can possibly surge that bad at 60mph!!! I mean usually surging is something a stick shift car will notice in first and second gear in a parking lot...every gear after that puts more load on the engine and smooths things out...and even in a stick car with a huge cam...I've never seen the tach swing THAT much from a surge.

I wish you were closer to me, I'd LOVE to pull the tune out and see how messed up it is...and of course I'd then help you fix it.

I doubt you'll be able to drive it with a stock tune in it...but I think you should just go directly to a better tuner, have them see if it's locked, and if not, fix it, and then go deal with getting your money back from the other shop.

[Mean Green Z28]

I will never let a tuner who locks tunes work on my car. I understand some want to do it to protect their knowledge, but I personally will not be bullied with a locked tune. also the reason I wouldn't do a mail order tune. I want full access all the time whether I'll ever need it or not and want the freedom to take it to who I want whenever I want. I have a copy of my stock tune and the latest tune on my PC and that will not change.

heck I'll prob never go back to an iPhone cos Apple is so restrictive with what owners do with their purchased phones.

Typing fat fingered on my GS3...excuse any sfelling mitcakes

[JANNETTYRACING]

Originally Posted by rberns

Can you remote tune with EFI live? If I had different shop tune it with EFI they could unlock it for the $125 licensing? So HP tuners can't do anything until my current shop unlocks it? I am not familiar with the tuning world.

I don't believe anyone can unlock your computer other than the person that locked it, only they have the Key code.

In any of the cases you have to have a device of your own to flash the computer.

Whether you choose EFIlive, HPtuners or SCT.

Once you own the device you can purchase custom tuning via email.

I choose SCT for over 2200 Remote Custom tunes around the globe.

Ted.