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Old 04-17-2012, 03:44 PM   #715
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And BTW what does all this gt gt500 and general banter have to do with first quarter mile times?
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Old 04-17-2012, 03:50 PM   #716
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Originally Posted by boxmonkeyracing View Post
So. . .a green automatic car with a suspect dyno sheet makes a 12.4 second pass. and you're already throwing in the towel. the manual is already known to be faster with a good driver. on a green car also. Sounds like you wanted GM to fail and can't take more FACTS to come to a different conclusion.

this car isn't worth 60k to YOU. so why are you in this section? to down GM? sorry. not enough passes by common people have come out. I've personally seen slower GT500's at the track. So take your disappointment and move on. judging a car on magazine runs and one shitty pass is absurd.

Again go launch a 580 hp car and tell me how easy it really is. My 4th gen with 350hp (est) at the wheels wasn't that easy to launch until I learned the car. So because I pulled a 12.5 pass with roughly 350 hp at the wheels a 580 hp car is a disappointment. right. my car also was around 3300-3400 lbs. along with a completely different suspension and aero.

Look at the dyno sheet for this automatic ZL1. There's a drop in power at 4500 rpms. Thats not normal. Part of me believes it has something to do with break in. but I have nothing to confirm that so speculating. I do think the 12.4 pass can be improved upon. but considering the auto ZL1 is still faster then mag times for the gt500. . .your disappointment is kind of absurd. Especially since we don't know what mode they launched in (need to recheck to see if they posted it up). any way. they will post another time soon. their promise.
Well said brother...
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Old 04-17-2012, 03:58 PM   #717
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Originally Posted by ffrcobra_65 View Post
I respect your passion, I really do.

The Boss 302 Laguna Seca doesn't have the electronic suspension gadgetry of the ZL1 but it does what the ZL1 does in both strip and track at 136hp less and thousands cheaper (MSRP vs MSRP). A few thousands difference between two directly competing cars shouldn't matter. I wonder what people will say when a SVT-PP optioned '13 GT500 posts better times on a roadcourse than the ZL1? On the strip, it is a done deal. Wait for the #s, it is no joke and is actually under-hyped.
In your words the Boss 302 is the ZL1 competitor? Since the GT500 is just so great that the ZL1 can't touch it?

I think the 1LE is the boss 302 competitor. the ZL1 had a bench mark for the current GT500. it matches that and does better in most areas. ford just responded and we should wait and see the real numbers before we make unbacked claims. I do want to see the competition increase. but I don't want to say the ford is 100% better based off a spec sheet. look at what you're have been saying here. People were going off specs for the ZL1 and you said wait. now you're doing the same with the 13 GT500. I say wait and see the numbers. and then you can stomp on peoples biased realities.
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We do not want to use the Z28 moniker on a car that does not deserve this hallowed name.
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Old 04-17-2012, 03:59 PM   #718
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It's called the Alpha platform. Zeta is just heavy.

So this car runs a road course better then a GT500 and that's def an area it does better then the stang. it should be labeled something it's not?. the ZL1 deserves the ZL1 name due to HP rating. The Z28 was never the most powerful camaro. the ZL1 was back in 69. and Now the current ZL1 has more power then that did.

The ZL1 was going to be the Z28. until someone realized that the Z28 name did not fit with the car. The Z28 name is closer to the 1LE, but with a more powerful engine and Naturally aspirated.
....correct me please if I am wrong.. the ZL1 was yes, the big dog Camaro but it was a drag strip car and the Z28 the road course car. (I owned a '89 1LE...lighter than the standard IROC 5.7...shoulda kept that one) So why are some touting the ZL1 now as a roadcourse car when last year, perhaps everyone here was proclaiming it as a strip slayer of the GT500? Labeling seems to change depending on the car it can or can't beat. Actually, I am a huge benefactor that it turned out to be a decent roadcourse car because that is where I want my Camaro to run good. I leave the 1/4 mile to the GT500 but it is a capable roadcourse car as well (the SVT-PP ones), and I hear the suspension is even better for teh new snake. Not as sophisticated as the ZL1's but no need to, it doesn't have over 2k pounds to push around.
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Old 04-17-2012, 04:02 PM   #719
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Originally Posted by boxmonkeyracing View Post
In your words the Boss 302 is the ZL1 competitor? Since the GT500 is just so great that the ZL1 can't touch it?

I think the 1LE is the boss 302 competitor. the ZL1 had a bench mark for the current GT500. it matches that and does better in most areas. ford just responded and we should wait and see the real numbers before we make unbacked claims. I do want to see the competition increase. but I don't want to say the ford is 100% better based off a spec sheet. look at what you're have been saying here. People were going off specs for the ZL1 and you said wait. now you're doing the same with the 13 GT500. I say wait and see the numbers. and then you can stomp on peoples biased realities.
No. What I said, "Thousands of $ between two directly competing cars shouldn't make a difference" was directed to people who will cray that the GT500 will need a few thousands of options to match the ZL1 in the roadcourse....which shouldn't matter. It is an available option, it isn't after-market. Anyway, yep, the ZL1 was admittedly benchmarked against the current GT500 so why did GM not let the media test it vs the GT500? There has got to be a logical reason, right?
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Old 04-17-2012, 04:07 PM   #720
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Originally Posted by ffrcobra_65 View Post
....correct me please if I am wrong.. the ZL1 was yes, the big dog Camaro but it was a drag strip car and the Z28 the road course car. (I owned a '89 1LE...lighter than the standard IROC 5.7...shoulda kept that one) So why are some touting the ZL1 now as a roadcourse car when last year, perhaps everyone here was proclaiming it as a strip slayer of the GT500? Labeling seems to change depending on the car it can or can't beat. Actually, I am a huge benefactor that it turned out to be a decent roadcourse car because that is where I want my Camaro to run good. I leave the 1/4 mile to the GT500 but it is a capable roadcourse car as well (the SVT-PP ones), and I hear the suspension is even better for teh new snake. Not as sophisticated as the ZL1's but no need to, it doesn't have over 2k pounds to push around.
Because they don't know their history, and want to win an argument. But I will also say GM wanted this car to handle. and it should for the chunk of change you shell out for it. I don't think this car deserves the Z28 name. Heat soak for a road course car should not be a huge worry. and that's the problem I have with the LSA. Even lingenfelter had an issue with the heat soak, on a cool day at the 1320.

As for the suspension. one huge advantage the ZL1 has over it's competitor is the fact it can change from soft to firm. where as the GT500 you will have to live with road course style suspension if you take it to the track or not.

look at the 1LE. holds the same 1g as the zl1 but has a "dumb" suspension system. I can live with that being I would take my car to the track. and I don't need the luxury of turning my suspension to soft while driving around.

the ZL1 is luxury with performance. when I think gt500 I honestly don't think luxury. I think performance. but I've spent little time sitting in one. I mainly just watch them make passes. so I honestly can't say much about interior or ride quality.
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Old 04-17-2012, 04:07 PM   #721
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Originally Posted by boxmonkeyracing View Post
Ford just responded and we should wait and see the real numbers before we make unbacked claims. I do want to see the competition increase. but I don't want to say the ford is 100% better based off a spec sheet. look at what you're have been saying here. People were going off specs for the ZL1 and you said wait. now you're doing the same with the 13 GT500. I say wait and see the numbers. and then you can stomp on peoples biased realities.
How in the world do you figure Ford "responded" to a car whose numbers and details were officially released in October 2011, right around 30 days before the GT500's details were released?

Look, we all agree the ZL1 is an awesome car, but it's hardly the "game-changer" we were all lead to believe it would be.
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Old 04-17-2012, 04:08 PM   #722
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I vaguely remember someone posting an argument thread about "Whether quarter Mile times are important" for the zl1.

It appears by the length of this thread.....that quarter mile times means a lot...and to a lot of people.

The best straight line performance for the money has always been a focus for the camaro, especially against the mustang.

The time for chevy to act will be when the '13 gt500 will first post its official numbers. Like it or lump it, but the zl1's main purpose should be to stay competitive with the gt500. Its great that the zl1 can handle, but if it pales in comparison to the gt500 in straight line performance then IMO it would fall short of its goal of being a serious contender to it.
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Old 04-17-2012, 04:09 PM   #723
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Originally Posted by ffrcobra_65 View Post
No. What I said, "Thousands of $ between two directly competing cars shouldn't make a difference" was directed to people who will cray that the GT500 will need a few thousands of options to match the ZL1 in the roadcourse....which shouldn't matter. It is an available option, it isn't after-market.
ok. my mistake. I think I was on that line because of the rag comparison also. I thought that funny. even though the GT500 is a 49k car and the ZL1 is a 54-55k car. once you add in the extras to perform they are along the same price point. then it becomes preference.
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We do not want to use the Z28 moniker on a car that does not deserve this hallowed name.
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Old 04-17-2012, 04:11 PM   #724
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ok. my mistake. I think I was on that line because of the rag comparison also. I thought that funny. even though the GT500 is a 49k car and the ZL1 is a 54-55k car. once you add in the extras to perform they are along the same price point. then it becomes preference.
yeah, the internet sucks for tone for sure. But we are on the same page on most parts. It wouldn't be as entertaining and educational if we agreed on everything.
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Old 04-17-2012, 04:11 PM   #725
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Quote:
Originally Posted by ffrcobra_65 View Post
....correct me please if I am wrong.. the ZL1 was yes, the big dog Camaro but it was a drag strip car and the Z28 the road course car. (I owned a '89 1LE...lighter than the standard IROC 5.7...shoulda kept that one) So why are some touting the ZL1 now as a roadcourse car when last year, perhaps everyone here was proclaiming it as a strip slayer of the GT500? Labeling seems to change depending on the car it can or can't beat. Actually, I am a huge benefactor that it turned out to be a decent roadcourse car because that is where I want my Camaro to run good. I leave the 1/4 mile to the GT500 but it is a capable roadcourse car as well (the SVT-PP ones), and I hear the suspension is even better for teh new snake. Not as sophisticated as the ZL1's but no need to, it doesn't have over 2k pounds to push around.
U got to understand us ZL1 fans hate to see the special car we have been waiting for 5 years now be equal to a current competitor('12 gt500) and about to get dominated by a competior coming out in a few months('13 gt500).
We were waiting for a camaro that would make the shelby look stupid on both the strip and road course, and chevy hyped the ZL1 way too much and its simply falling flat right now.
BUT it will take one comparison with the '13gt500 to make us relize that the ZL1 is 1) a beast that will be competitive with the shelby or 2) a to little to late overhyped camaro.
With that said i still "have faith" and looking forward to a ZL1 taking residents at my house in May.
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Old 04-17-2012, 04:12 PM   #726
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The best straight line performance for the money has always been a focus for the camaro, especially against the mustang.
Straight line performance was not the focus with the 1967 to 1969 Z28 Camaros.
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Old 04-17-2012, 04:12 PM   #727
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How in the world do you figure Ford "responded" to a car whose numbers and details were officially released in October 2011, right around 30 days before the GT500's details were released?

Look, we all agree the ZL1 is an awesome car, but it's hardly the "game-changer" we were all lead to believe it would be.
really? I guess the release in Feb with the fact the LSA was the engine. with at least 550 hp wasn't a bench mark to beat? I guess you forget about that.
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Old 04-17-2012, 04:12 PM   #728
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Whats funny is you guys arguing over something you have no direct control over.

I like the ZL1, will I buy one? Doubt it. It has a bunch of features that i dont want. I had planned on spending my deployment money and buying one outright. But then i got smart and decided to spend more money on my Twin turbo BBC project.

I will probably buy a v6 car and strip it and build it the way i want and be much happier. If I want to be cool guys are already buying all the ZL1 exterior pieces and swapping it on there cars. So in the end....WTF!
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