LLT MACE Cams - Camaro5 Chevy Camaro Forum / Camaro ZL1, SS and V6 Forums

MagnumForceGB · 02-14-2017, 09:06 PM

I got a set of MACE 210/210 camshafts for my LLT back in November. Over the winter time I removed the cylinder heads, ported the exhaust ports, installed 85 lb valve springs and the camshafts. I had my supercharger installed during the first drive but due to the impeller seal leaking I have it off and will be tuning it as NA. Next Friday I plan on going to the track with this setup, see how it works.

For the install, I did everything in my own home garage. Cylinder head removal wasn't required but I removed mine to replace my original ones. This also gave me a chance to port only the exhaust ports which I enlarged from 40mm wide to 46mm-47mm wide (forgot which). For the height I only went from 20mm to 23mm, but I slopped the ports down to where the gaskets were. The bottom of the exhaust ports were close to the top coolant ports, didn't want to destroy them. The exhaust valves are 30mm in diameter each, so both of them open flowed a lot and the stock exhaust port narrowed down fast. They now matched the gaskets, but are still smaller than what my ARH headers are height wise.

I did the valve springs with the cylinder heads off which made it easy. The stock valve springs are around 60#, going to 85# made the engine harder to start (it struggles a little bit now) but will make sure there is no valve float when I get into extreme RPM and boost.

For the camshafts themselves, they are about the same valve lift as the stock cams. The duration is about 25 degrees longer (getting the exact specs for OEM is hard) with the same centerline, this allows more overlap at rest position but earlier exhaust valve opening and later intake valve closing. This allowed more overlap at mid-range and extending the torque curve to very high RPM. These cams really shine when you rev the engine out, you can have 3.91 gears but still get the MPH of 3.27 gears. The install was straight forward, if you are doing timing chains yourself then to swap out camshafts is real simple since majority of the work is done (timing cover and chains removed).

The only issue I had during the whole install was during the first startup. I started the engine up and after 20 minutes I gave it some gas and everything when to crap. The engine started misfiring and bank 1 went completely lean. After a week of troubleshooting I found out the issue was a camshaft actuator solenoid had gone bad, it wasn't returning to the rest position so oil was constantly going to the movement side of the oil passage. Best way I can describe it is each camshaft has 2 oil passages in the cylinder head, they lead into the camshaft actuator itself. This solenoid controls which passage gets the oil, the advance or retard passage. My solenoid was stuck on the retard passage so the exhaust cam was 50 degrees closing the exhaust valves later, causing massive overlap on only one side of the engine.

I've driven the car for the past 2 days for my work commute and the mid-range acceleration is a lot better. The engine is currently revving to 7200 RPM and still making power, by next weekend I want to have it revving out to 7500+, depending on when the intake manifold stops make power. I'm using a crappy hot air intake setup from parts of my boost pipes for right now. The exhaust note became deeper with a little bit of lope, but nothing drastic. I'm still working on the off-idle acceleration, there is a little bit of lag in it.

Current mods are:
80mm Throttle Body
LFX Intake Manifold (ported throttle inlet)
MACE 210/210 Camshafts
MACE 85# Valve Springs
Ported Cylinder Head Exhaust Ports
American Racing Headers 1-3/4" Long Tube Headers
ARK DT-S 2-1/2" Cat-back exhaust
Circle D 5C Torque Converter
Driveshaft Shop 1-piece driveshaft
210mm Differential with 1LE 3.91 gears and JRE Posi-Mod
1LE Axles and Hubs
BMR Suspension
HP Tuners self-tuned

My car is still heavy since I have some of my supercharger stuff still on, mainly the intercooler and meth pumps. I'm hoping to get at least a low 13 second pass since the DA will probably be in the 2000 range.

Any questions about these camshafts, I can answer them like the install and some specs. These cams didn't not require a VVT delete or limiters, they still allow full range of movement. They do require the engine to be revved higher to take full advantage though.

JohnZ · 02-19-2017, 02:45 AM

I know this is a basic question, but do you know what the power increase is throughout the power band? Dyno?

MagnumForceGB · 02-20-2017, 08:15 PM

From the aussies who actually know the LLT engine. Most tuners here don't even modify the cam timing so their gains are minimal. Big difference is how the power doesn't stop at 6700 RPM, it keeps going till 7500 RPM. Keeping the car in a lower gear longer adds gains on the quarter mile.

MagnumForceGB · 02-22-2017, 07:52 PM

Video of revving the engine out to 7500 RPM.

Kenny Camaro · 02-22-2017, 08:07 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by MagnumForceGB

From the aussies who actually know the LLT engine. Most tuners here don't even modify the cam timing so their gains are minimal. Big difference is how the power doesn't stop at 6700 RPM, it keeps going till 7500 RPM. Keeping the car in a lower gear longer adds gains on the quarter mile.

What the rwhp and rwtq conversion?

MagnumForceGB · 02-22-2017, 08:35 PM

On the graph, the gains were 256 rwhp to 333 rwhp, 214 rwtq to 260 rwtq.

JohnZ · 02-23-2017, 07:44 PM

Wow, extremely impressive. How has your MPG changed? Also, may be silly, but this require a tune or did the engine adapt?

MagnumForceGB · 02-23-2017, 11:06 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by JohnZ

Wow, extremely impressive. How has your MPG changed? Also, may be silly, but this require a tune or did the engine adapt?

No change in MPG. No tune required to run but to get the most out of it you need a tune that increases the rpm limit and moves the cam timing.

Mikeiser · 02-24-2017, 12:13 AM

I almost purchased MACE cams a couple times but kept backing out when bad reviews were flowing. I'd definitely be more comfortable if @WillOverkill chimed in with positive feedback for being able to work these into the tune he sells. I have a lead foot with my Colorado so midrange is perfect for me. I also have no problem redlining the LFX. Definitely going boosted and might pick these up after all if they turn out to be worth it.

Quick question: why can't we have more lift? Is it damn near maxed out for these engines? Is it just too close to tapping the piston or does the valvetrain need to be lengthened?

MagnumForceGB · 02-24-2017, 10:22 AM

Piston-to-valve clearance plus Valve-to-Valve, the Variable Valve Timing would have you be physically limited or deleted. If the cam actuator solenoid failed (did on mine) and no physical limiter is used it would trash the engine because a $30 part failed.

Mikeiser · 03-01-2017, 12:01 PM

So hows it going with your naturally aspirated aspirations? Any new information concerning the cams?

The camaro show · 03-01-2017, 12:21 PM

how does the cam sound

MagnumForceGB · 03-01-2017, 02:02 PM

I have my supercharger on right now, my intake pipe without it was sucking too much hot air from the headers. After I get some data from the supercharger runs I'm going to take it off for the 10-rib upgrade, that will allow me to work on the NA setup again.

The cam has a little lope in the in park position, when one of my actuators failed and put the exhaust in full retard position it loped and popped like crazy.

Kenny Camaro · 03-01-2017, 05:44 PM

So it looks like with a growler intake(?),mace cams, full xforce exhaust and a tune got a 77 rwhp gain on a LFX. That's pretty good. Wonder what the 80TB ported mani and intake spacer on E-85 with the Overkill tune would bring? Has Will done any N/A Mace tuning?

02-14-2017, 09:06 PM	#1
MagnumForceGB Drives: Fastest 2010 Camaro V6 Join Date: Apr 2010 Location: Newcastle, OK Posts: 3,571 View My Garage	LLT MACE Cams I got a set of MACE 210/210 camshafts for my LLT back in November. Over the winter time I removed the cylinder heads, ported the exhaust ports, installed 85 lb valve springs and the camshafts. I had my supercharger installed during the first drive but due to the impeller seal leaking I have it off and will be tuning it as NA. Next Friday I plan on going to the track with this setup, see how it works. For the install, I did everything in my own home garage. Cylinder head removal wasn't required but I removed mine to replace my original ones. This also gave me a chance to port only the exhaust ports which I enlarged from 40mm wide to 46mm-47mm wide (forgot which). For the height I only went from 20mm to 23mm, but I slopped the ports down to where the gaskets were. The bottom of the exhaust ports were close to the top coolant ports, didn't want to destroy them. The exhaust valves are 30mm in diameter each, so both of them open flowed a lot and the stock exhaust port narrowed down fast. They now matched the gaskets, but are still smaller than what my ARH headers are height wise. I did the valve springs with the cylinder heads off which made it easy. The stock valve springs are around 60#, going to 85# made the engine harder to start (it struggles a little bit now) but will make sure there is no valve float when I get into extreme RPM and boost. For the camshafts themselves, they are about the same valve lift as the stock cams. The duration is about 25 degrees longer (getting the exact specs for OEM is hard) with the same centerline, this allows more overlap at rest position but earlier exhaust valve opening and later intake valve closing. This allowed more overlap at mid-range and extending the torque curve to very high RPM. These cams really shine when you rev the engine out, you can have 3.91 gears but still get the MPH of 3.27 gears. The install was straight forward, if you are doing timing chains yourself then to swap out camshafts is real simple since majority of the work is done (timing cover and chains removed). The only issue I had during the whole install was during the first startup. I started the engine up and after 20 minutes I gave it some gas and everything when to crap. The engine started misfiring and bank 1 went completely lean. After a week of troubleshooting I found out the issue was a camshaft actuator solenoid had gone bad, it wasn't returning to the rest position so oil was constantly going to the movement side of the oil passage. Best way I can describe it is each camshaft has 2 oil passages in the cylinder head, they lead into the camshaft actuator itself. This solenoid controls which passage gets the oil, the advance or retard passage. My solenoid was stuck on the retard passage so the exhaust cam was 50 degrees closing the exhaust valves later, causing massive overlap on only one side of the engine. I've driven the car for the past 2 days for my work commute and the mid-range acceleration is a lot better. The engine is currently revving to 7200 RPM and still making power, by next weekend I want to have it revving out to 7500+, depending on when the intake manifold stops make power. I'm using a crappy hot air intake setup from parts of my boost pipes for right now. The exhaust note became deeper with a little bit of lope, but nothing drastic. I'm still working on the off-idle acceleration, there is a little bit of lag in it. Current mods are: 80mm Throttle Body LFX Intake Manifold (ported throttle inlet) MACE 210/210 Camshafts MACE 85# Valve Springs Ported Cylinder Head Exhaust Ports American Racing Headers 1-3/4" Long Tube Headers ARK DT-S 2-1/2" Cat-back exhaust Circle D 5C Torque Converter Driveshaft Shop 1-piece driveshaft 210mm Differential with 1LE 3.91 gears and JRE Posi-Mod 1LE Axles and Hubs BMR Suspension HP Tuners self-tuned My car is still heavy since I have some of my supercharger stuff still on, mainly the intercooler and meth pumps. I'm hoping to get at least a low 13 second pass since the DA will probably be in the 2000 range. Any questions about these camshafts, I can answer them like the install and some specs. These cams didn't not require a VVT delete or limiters, they still allow full range of movement. They do require the engine to be revved higher to take full advantage though. Attached Images __________________ Camaro V6 = 11.268 @ 120.11

02-19-2017, 02:45 AM	#2
JohnZ Drives: 2010 Camaro 2LT V6 Join Date: Jul 2009 Location: California Posts: 439	I know this is a basic question, but do you know what the power increase is throughout the power band? Dyno? __________________ Injen CAI, V-Max Throttle Body, Rx 25mm Iceolator, Rx 10mm Plenum Spacer, Mace Ported Manifold, ARK N-II Catback, Trifecta Tune, Rx Catch Can. BMR Bushing Inserts,Pedders Radius Rod Inserts, Pfadt Sway Bars and Endlinks, LSR Front Subframe Brace SS Brembo Brakes, Racing Brake Stainless Lines

02-20-2017, 08:15 PM	#3
MagnumForceGB Drives: Fastest 2010 Camaro V6 Join Date: Apr 2010 Location: Newcastle, OK Posts: 3,571 View My Garage	From the aussies who actually know the LLT engine. Most tuners here don't even modify the cam timing so their gains are minimal. Big difference is how the power doesn't stop at 6700 RPM, it keeps going till 7500 RPM. Keeping the car in a lower gear longer adds gains on the quarter mile. Attached Images __________________ Camaro V6 = 11.268 @ 120.11

02-22-2017, 07:52 PM	#4
MagnumForceGB Drives: Fastest 2010 Camaro V6 Join Date: Apr 2010 Location: Newcastle, OK Posts: 3,571 View My Garage	Video of revving the engine out to 7500 RPM. __________________ Camaro V6 = 11.268 @ 120.11

02-22-2017, 08:35 PM	#6
MagnumForceGB Drives: Fastest 2010 Camaro V6 Join Date: Apr 2010 Location: Newcastle, OK Posts: 3,571 View My Garage	On the graph, the gains were 256 rwhp to 333 rwhp, 214 rwtq to 260 rwtq. __________________ Camaro V6 = 11.268 @ 120.11

02-23-2017, 07:44 PM	#7
JohnZ Drives: 2010 Camaro 2LT V6 Join Date: Jul 2009 Location: California Posts: 439	Wow, extremely impressive. How has your MPG changed? Also, may be silly, but this require a tune or did the engine adapt? __________________ Injen CAI, V-Max Throttle Body, Rx 25mm Iceolator, Rx 10mm Plenum Spacer, Mace Ported Manifold, ARK N-II Catback, Trifecta Tune, Rx Catch Can. BMR Bushing Inserts,Pedders Radius Rod Inserts, Pfadt Sway Bars and Endlinks, LSR Front Subframe Brace SS Brembo Brakes, Racing Brake Stainless Lines

02-24-2017, 12:13 AM	#9
Mikeiser Drives: 2015 Colorado v6 LFX Join Date: Oct 2016 Location: Texas Posts: 21 View My Garage	I almost purchased MACE cams a couple times but kept backing out when bad reviews were flowing. I'd definitely be more comfortable if @WillOverkill chimed in with positive feedback for being able to work these into the tune he sells. I have a lead foot with my Colorado so midrange is perfect for me. I also have no problem redlining the LFX. Definitely going boosted and might pick these up after all if they turn out to be worth it. Quick question: why can't we have more lift? Is it damn near maxed out for these engines? Is it just too close to tapping the piston or does the valvetrain need to be lengthened? __________________ 80mm Overkill Throttlebody, JacFab Manifold Spacer, MBRP Catback, Trifecta Tune

02-24-2017, 10:22 AM	#10
MagnumForceGB Drives: Fastest 2010 Camaro V6 Join Date: Apr 2010 Location: Newcastle, OK Posts: 3,571 View My Garage	Piston-to-valve clearance plus Valve-to-Valve, the Variable Valve Timing would have you be physically limited or deleted. If the cam actuator solenoid failed (did on mine) and no physical limiter is used it would trash the engine because a $30 part failed. __________________ Camaro V6 = 11.268 @ 120.11

03-01-2017, 12:01 PM	#11
Mikeiser Drives: 2015 Colorado v6 LFX Join Date: Oct 2016 Location: Texas Posts: 21 View My Garage	So hows it going with your naturally aspirated aspirations? Any new information concerning the cams? __________________ 80mm Overkill Throttlebody, JacFab Manifold Spacer, MBRP Catback, Trifecta Tune

03-01-2017, 12:21 PM	#12
The camaro show Drives: 2015 camaro 2lt Join Date: Dec 2016 Location: Northern West Virginia Posts: 925	how does the cam sound __________________ Cosmetic mods: SS hood with painted vent, SS bumper, acs 1le front lip black, big worm gfx tinted all lights, solar wing v2, Camaro seat belt pads and oracle color shift halos and fog light halos and rear colorshift bow tie, carbon creations carbon fiber stingray z spoiler Wheels: lexani r-3 bg finish 19x8.5 Performance: cold air inductions intake, mrt v1, jacfab ported intake manifold, intake manifold spacer, overkill tuned on E85.

03-01-2017, 02:02 PM	#13
MagnumForceGB Drives: Fastest 2010 Camaro V6 Join Date: Apr 2010 Location: Newcastle, OK Posts: 3,571 View My Garage	I have my supercharger on right now, my intake pipe without it was sucking too much hot air from the headers. After I get some data from the supercharger runs I'm going to take it off for the 10-rib upgrade, that will allow me to work on the NA setup again. The cam has a little lope in the in park position, when one of my actuators failed and put the exhaust in full retard position it loped and popped like crazy. __________________ Camaro V6 = 11.268 @ 120.11

03-01-2017, 05:44 PM	#14
Kenny Camaro Account Suspended Drives: 2013 1LT RS Camaro Join Date: Apr 2016 Location: Southeast Michigan Posts: 3,494	So it looks like with a growler intake(?),mace cams, full xforce exhaust and a tune got a 77 rwhp gain on a LFX. That's pretty good. Wonder what the 80TB ported mani and intake spacer on E-85 with the Overkill tune would bring? Has Will done any N/A Mace tuning?