HOW MUCH IS AND WAS TOO MUCH?

[RobZL1]

Always cool when Ted joins in!

Blaq, I'm gonna say 700 on pump gas is my personal happy zone. My plan is to add flex sensor, aux pump, id1300, and JRE cam package. I'm hoping for close to 700 pump, and 750 E85. After that, I'm done with it for likely the remainder of my ownership.

[BlaqWhole]

Originally Posted by RobZL1

Always cool when Ted joins in!

Blaq, I'm gonna say 700 on pump gas is my personal happy zone. My plan is to add flex sensor, aux pump, id1300, and JRE cam package. I'm hoping for close to 700 pump, and 750 E85. After that, I'm done with it for likely the remainder of my ownership.

Ok. So we agree then. My post was based on pump gas at 91-93 octane. The examples I gave, the guys were all on pump gas. 91 won't get you very far. 93 is better. But 650-700 is about as far as I would go, 650 being safe and conservative, 700 pushing it. See out here E85 is not easily accessible. And I haven't seen many on meth injection. Chiller setups seem to be the thing as I see that more than anything else.

[CAM....ZL1]

Originally Posted by JANNETTYRACING

Thanks for the props guys.

We are dealing with mass produced engines not hand built custom engines with all the best parts money can buy so it is amazing they hold the power they do.

I remember when productions engines would fail at 450 crank hp (showing my age) or blocks would split in 2 halves at 550 crank HP.

A testament to what GM has accomplished with the LS series of engines GM.

Now I can't say this enough Fuel systems are the foundation and down fall of any build if not adequate for the target HP goal.

I see too many posts about how this or that guy is trying to make X power without upgrading the fuel system and I am like

If you feed an engine with the right amount of fuel, timing, cooling, octane, control IAT you can make outrageous Power with longevity.

The tune can be perfect but if it runs out of fuel down track you can kiss your engine goodbye.

Ted.

^^^^^^
This post right here is why I took Teds advice and did the fore dual pump id 1300's and also new fore lsa fuel rails. I did not want to be short on fuel plus I added the aeroforce interceptor gauge to monitor it all. I read in another post here that the stock fuel rails bottleneck the fuel. I wanted to be sure the proper fuel was getting to all the cylinders. I really don't know where I am power wise, you can make a guess cause soon I'm going to the dyno.

Mods are Dyna tech headers, Dyna tech gutted super cats, JRE rough idle cam package, 28% lower, 90mm ported TB, fore dual pump system, fore lsa rails, flex fuel sensor, Roto Fab CAI, Roto Fab coolant resevoir, free big gulp mod, tr7ix plugs, JRE modified cc vent, elite cc, also upgraded to melling oil pump and hardened timing chain. New lifters, guides and replaced the spring isolator. Probably forgetting something. It's JRE tuned and running 80%E on 12.5 lbs of boost. Also this a A6.

[RobZL1]

Originally Posted by CAM....ZL1

^^^^^^
This post right here is why I took Teds advice and did the fore dual pump id 1300's and also new fore lsa dual rails. I did not want to be short on fuel plus I added the aeroforce interceptor gauge to monitor it all. I read in another post here that the stock fuel rails bottleneck the fuel. I wanted to be sure the proper fuel was getting to all the cylinders. I really don't know where I am power wise, you can make a guess cause soon I'm going to the dyno.

Mods are Dyna tech headers, Dyna tech gutted super cats, JRE rough idle cam package, 28% lower, 90mm ported TB, fore dual pump system, fore lsa rails, flex fuel sensor, Roto Fab CAI, Roto Fab coolant resevoir, free big gulp mod, tr7ix plugs, JRE modified cc vent, elite cc, also upgraded to melling oil pump and hardened timing chain. New lifters, guides and replaced the spring isolator. Probably forgetting something. It's JRE tuned and running 80%E on 12.5 lbs of boost. Also this a A6.

My guess is 640 on pump and 690 on E85 with the A6.

[CAM....ZL1]

Originally Posted by RobZL1

My guess is 640 on pump and 690 on E85 with the A6.

I think they will be higher, I will tell you why. I have JRE's 750 package which he has said on this site that he has never had one dyno less than 650 RWHP, that is with a 22% lower, I have 28% lower then E85. I am certain it will be north of 700. I could also be wrong.

[Can'tHave2MuchHP]

My comfort zone on the LSA, given proper fueling and tuning would be around 800 RWHP on the stock blower. More on a TT setup or Centrifugal blower. If I were to put a forged crank/diamond pistons/and the like, I’d take it to 1200 on blower if I wanted that kind of power (I find the road limit to be around 800-900 RWHP anyways though. More than that and everything starts wearing down and breaking regularly.)

There are countless LS9 engines putting over 850 RWHP on blower only (H/C/E/Meth/FBO) and many in the 900-1000 RWHP range with full on builds and they’ve run forever. Reason I bring it up is the LS9 has effectively the same durability as the LSA but a bigger blower and can make those numbers so obviously many shops (Kong/RPM/VR/etc) have figured out how to properly setup and tune such builds en mass.

Originally Posted by StreetRage320

Will someone please p.m. me when cant logs in?

I deliberately stayed out of it. My reply above shouldn’t need to be replied to by anyone.

[BlaqWhole]

Originally Posted by CAM....ZL1

I think they will be higher, I will tell you why. I have JRE's 750 package which he has said on this site that he has never had one dyno less than 650 RWHP, that is with a 22% lower, I have 28% lower then E85. I am certain it will be north of 700. I could also be wrong.

A little higher with E85 or meth for sure. But I'm not too sure how much higher you could go on 91-93 octane. And I wouldn't risk it. Especially in the case of bad gas. You'll lose that engine quickly. I've seen it happen plenty of times. As far as pump gas, in some areas can't get more than 91 octane, other areas are limited to 92, and some of us are lucky enough to get 93...out here in NJ we used to get 94 but not for years. Those with 91 max are very limited. I would be cautious pushing it on pump gas only over 650-700. So one thing people should look into is fuel availability in their area.

[BlaqWhole]

Originally Posted by Can'tHave2MuchHP

Reason I bring it up is the LS9 has effectively the same durability as the LSA...

Good laugh.

The LS9 has titanium rods and forged pistons. The LSA has powdered metal rods and hyper-yute pistons. They are nowhere close in terms of durability. The LSA was impressive for the time it was around. But the LS9 was leaps and bounds ahead of it. Keeping it to the limits of pump gas and the LSA can keep up. But go beyond that and the LS9 will easily support more power on the stock internals than the LSA. They didn't just put those stronger components in the LS9 for nothing.

[CAM....ZL1]

Originally Posted by BlaqWhole

A little higher with E85 or meth for sure. But I'm not too sure how much higher you could go on 91-93 octane. And I wouldn't risk it. Especially in the case of bad gas. You'll lose that engine quickly. I've seen it happen plenty of times. As far as pump gas, in some areas can't get more than 91 octane, other areas are limited to 92, and some of us are lucky enough to get 93...out here in NJ we used to get 94 but not for years. Those with 91 max are very limited. I would be cautious pushing it on pump gas only over 650-700. So one thing people should look into is fuel availability in their area.

We have 93 everywhere here and I only use top tier fuels. This is why I have all the gauges with voice annunciation set if it goes wrong. I plan on mostly E85 anyway. Our winter E85 is 80%. If the parts fail I will build it stronger.

[RobZL1]

Originally Posted by CAM....ZL1

I think they will be higher, I will tell you why. I have JRE's 750 package which he has said on this site that he has never had one dyno less than 650 RWHP, that is with a 22% lower, I have 28% lower then E85. I am certain it will be north of 700. I could also be wrong.

I hope you are right, as that would be good news for my future plans. I thought the 650 advertised minumum was with m6, hence my lower estimate.

If this was an m6, I'd guess 690 and 740. There are a few m6 cars on here that make right at 690-700 on 93, wiith the same mods you are planning, but m6's. I've kept mental notes on those cars when I see them since that's roughly the end package I'll have, too.

[BlaqWhole]

Originally Posted by CAM....ZL1

We have 93 everywhere here and I only use top tier fuels. This is why I have all the gauges with voice annunciation set if it goes wrong. I plan on mostly E85 anyway. Our winter E85 is 80%. If the parts fail I will build it stronger.

If you have E85 accessible then go for it. I think there is only one station out here that has it and they're a good hour drive away. Not worth it. And I don't like to store fuels otherwise I'd buy it and have it delivered to me and keep it on hand.

[Can'tHave2MuchHP]

Originally Posted by BlaqWhole

Good laugh.

The LS9 has titanium rods and forged pistons. The LSA has powdered metal rods and hyper-yute pistons. They are nowhere close in terms of durability. The LSA was impressive for the time it was around. But the LS9 was leaps and bounds ahead of it. Keeping it to the limits of pump gas and the LSA can keep up. But go beyond that and the LS9 will easily support more power on the stock internals than the LSA. They didn't just put those stronger components in the LS9 for nothing.

True. Been a while since I’ve done an LS9 car.

[JB'sZL1]

Originally Posted by BlaqWhole

A little higher with E85 or meth for sure. But I'm not too sure how much higher you could go on 91-93 octane. And I wouldn't risk it. Especially in the case of bad gas. You'll lose that engine quickly. I've seen it happen plenty of times. As far as pump gas, in some areas can't get more than 91 octane, other areas are limited to 92, and some of us are lucky enough to get 93...out here in NJ we used to get 94 but not for years. Those with 91 max are very limited. I would be cautious pushing it on pump gas only over 650-700. So one thing people should look into is fuel availability in their area.

You are now discussing fuel availability and fuel quality as a reason for limiting power in the lsa. I think that's just ridiculous. It is not remotely germane to the op's question. When one goes north of 700rwhp (or less), one does not skimp on fuel quality. Period.

The bandaid is a bap for lower power levels. But that is dubious at best. There is then the DSX, but the best is Fore or Squash. It's a no brainer if you install 1050's or bigger, but then, one needs to replace those puny fuel rails. The prudent one will watch knock, timing, IAT's, IDC %, etc. And at the first sign of an issue, address and resolve.

The last thing on my worry list is running out of fuel, or running substandard fuel. Of course this will wreck an engine. And if you don't even have access to 93, E85 or meth, why engage?

[BlaqWhole]

Originally Posted by JB'sZL1

You are now discussing fuel availability and fuel quality as a reason for limiting power in the lsa. I think that's just ridiculous. It is not remotely germane to the op's question. When one goes north of 700rwhp (or less), one does not skimp on fuel quality. Period.

The bandaid is a bap for lower power levels. But that is dubious at best. There is then the DSX, but the best is Fore or Squash. It's a no brainer if you install 1050's or bigger, but then, one needs to replace those puny fuel rails. The prudent one will watch knock, timing, IAT's, IDC %, etc. And at the first sign of an issue, address and resolve.

The last thing on my worry list is running out of fuel, or running substandard fuel. Of course this will wreck an engine. And if you don't even have access to 93, E85 or meth, why engage?

Sure.