SNEAK PEAK! 2010 camaro RS V6 gains 33HP and torque with install of BBK headers!

[GTAHVIT]

being a v8 guy.... that sounds really good. Very nice.

[scrming]

my 100% stock dyno pulls for comparison...

[scrming]

Originally Posted by deljaso

Very nice, it didn't turn into a coffee can/pissed off weedwacker.

Thanks for the clip! I'm getting more excited... Now all we need is a price (which is usually where my bubble is burst).

Just wondering what it would sound with a loud aftermarket exhaust... hmmmm...

[mike25]

Originally Posted by scrming

Just wondering what it would sound with a loud aftermarket exhaust... hmmmm...

x2...

[BBKTECH]

Similar BBK full length set up on a V-8 for comparison-
http://www.youtube.com/user/bbkperfo.../2/bNfE9v0cvM8

[HaveBlue]

Originally Posted by rodimus prime

Always people trying to pee in peoples cheerios.

Ive had camaros with long tubes since 99 and as long as it passes the sniffer you wont have a problem, unless you live in California...which if Lex Luther would of had his way would be a much cooler place to live.

Seriously some of you guys are so quick to throw out the "that will void yer warranty" and "you wont pass emissions" epidemic without researching anything.

I mean if your going 57 in a 55 your speeding right? Better not do it. Its illegal.

Originally Posted by AtreidesMarine

He is right. I've never even heard or seen anyone bother and make any comments about having longtube headers on.

Don't worry about emissions either (on Cali, 99% sure your fine, look for the "CARB" approved on the product's page), I have a '98 LS1 powered Camaro Z28 with longtube's hooked up to a 3in exhaust back, passed inspection in MA and Texas. If it passes MA, you're ok. Oh yeah, and voiding your warranty... I'd say your chances are like 7% tops, they have to proved the "mod" caused the problem (at least on this small scale). And hey, it never hurts to ask a GM guy, and bring it up when buying the car.

Just chill, stop freaking out about everything stupid, use common sense.

Just a IMO... shorties and mid-length headers are goofy 85% of the time, LT's are the way to go (if you live in Cali, just move, you'll have nice(r) air anyways )

And besides, a car with the power of this new bosch comp, cars will adjust to these minor mods, headers (unless stated off-road) will come with 02 sensor bungs on them, my Z never tossed a CEL code, ever, and yes ever before the tune. Just a little confused for a good 10 miles ahaha

Rant is over... buncha goof balls =)

Man I love seeing advice given on the "errornet".

No one is peeing in anyones Cheerios. And yes you are right people should do their research. Are you two willing to be accountable for your advice? You know, like if the poster follows it and they have a legal or warranty issue you'll pony up to cover it?


The question was not "what can I get away with" it was "are they legal". Two different questions two different answers. The "are they legal" part answer is no. Not in any state, it's a Federal Law, The Clean Air Act. Just because a state or city does not have compliance testing does no mean it's not illegal. Your both right that many states have no testing and some only test tail pipe emissions (which IMO is how it should be, but isn't). So this would be the correct answer to "what can I, maybe, get away with".
The poster deserves to get a complete answer and then make their own decision as to what they want to do.

Your speeding example was not taken quite far enough, although it does fit todays society attitude of "it's only wrong if I get caught". The speed limit is posted 55, so you know it's not legal to go faster. How far do you think you will get with a cop telling him, "hey someone told me it was OK to speed here, he does it all the time and never got a ticket". You make a choice to violate the posted law based on your risk/reward assessment, because YOU will pay the consequences.

Here are some links to help you in your research.
http://www.car-sound.com/04basics/04carb.asp
http://www.car-sound.com/04basics/04epa.asp


From SEMA documents,
"Headers for use on catalytic converter equipped vehicles require an Executive Order to be legal for street use."
"A legal aftermarket catalyst is one that is listed in a CARB approved manufacturers catalog for the year, make, model, and engine size of vehicle on which it is being installed. Manufacturers of aftermarket catalytic converters must obtain an Executive Order for their products from the California Air Resources Board in order to be listed in an approved catalog. "

I have a 35 pg SEMA pdf if anyone would like a copy I will email it to you.

Magnuson-Moss Act only applies to legal replacement parts. If you put "off-road/race only" parts on the car then technically it no longer complies to NHTSA & EPA standards as a street vehicle and as such the dealer/manufacturer has no requirement to warranty any part of it.
MMA only applies to stock replacement parts, regrdless of the manufacturer (ie, does not have to be GM) and aprts certified as no altering the vehicles emmsions output through either a C.A.R.B. EO number or compliance with EPA Memoriandum 1A of the Clean Air Act (basicly the same testing as CARB).

Even the "off road/race" loop hole is beginning to be closed. A manufacturer can be audited for how many "off-road" parts they have sold and then asked "OK show us that many "race" vehicles using them.

So do as you want. I hope you do mod your cars. But require the manufactuer to be up front with you.

Speaking of which, you may have noticed that BBK never did answer the question "Are they legal?"

[HaveBlue]

Originally Posted by BBKTECH

No problem.

The testing we did was with a set of BBK high flow cats installed.

The stock ones had to be removed due to the fact that they have a bunch of piping that is weled to them and the headers will not fit with them.

Guess you guys have missed this.

CARB OBDll COMPLIANCE

Information Regarding C.A.R.B. OBDII Compliance
Converters designated “California OBDII” are designed to meet the more stringent requirements as set forth by the California Air Resources Board. Converters bearing this designation perform better and are covered by warranty for a greater period of time than standard aftermarket replacement converters. It is important to note that CARB compliant OBDII converters can be used only for the specific applications as evaluated in the certification evaluation process. They are not designed to be universal converters and, as a result, they may NOT be used for any application not listed in the California Application Guide.

New California and EPA rules mandate that:
(A) The vehicle is specifically included in the vehicle California application list for which the new aftermarket catalytic converter has been exempted;

(B) The vehicle is more than 7 years old or has more than 70,000 miles on its odometer;

(C) The vehicle is beyond the coverage of the OEM catalyst warranty period (which can vary from 7 years or 70,000 miles to as high as 15 years or 150,000 miles). Installers may reference the vehicle owner’s manual/warranty booklet or contact the vehicle manufacturer or its representative to verify the applicable OEM catalyst warranty;

(D) The vehicle has a legitimate need for replacement of the existing converter that has been established and documented by the installer. The actual manufacturer’s warranty period for an individual vehicle is listed in the vehicle’s owner’s manual and/or warranty booklet. Examples of current warranty periods include seven years and 70,000 miles, eight years and 80,000 miles, and 15 years and 150,000 miles, depending on the vehicle. If the OEM converter is present, the installer must make a determination that it is not functioning properly before acting to replace it;

(E) The exempted new aftermarket catalytic converter is installed in the same location as the OEM catalytic converter it is designed to replace. The front face of the installed catalytic converter shall be no more than three inches further upstream or downstream in the exhaust from where the front face of the OEM catalytic converter was located. The installation may not alter the location, position, or orientation of oxygen sensors upstream and downstream of the catalytic converter(s);

(F) The exempted new aftermarket catalytic converter is installed on a one-for one catalytic converter basis;

(G) The exempted new aftermarket catalytic converter is installed with all other required catalytic converters (no consolidation of catalytic converters, nor addition of extra catalytic converters is allowed); and

(H) A California warranty card has been filled out by the installer, signed by the customer, attached to the repair invoice, and a copy returned to the manufacturer.

(I) Installers shall keep documentation regarding the installation of the new aftermarket catalytic converters including all of the above information. This documentation shall be made available to ARB or its representative as provided for in title 13, section 2222(b)(8). All such records shall be maintained for four years from the date of sale or installation of the catalytic converter.

[HaveBlue]

Originally Posted by BBKTECH

Regarding warranty-
(Google Magnusson Moss Warranty Act)

First let me say that NO DEALER CAN LEGALLY "VOID" YOUR WARRANTY.
If you modify your car and the modification causes an issue and you take it to the dealer for service, the dealer can choose to charge you for the service that it takes to correct whatever issue you are having, meaning that they can choose to not "cover" the repair under warranty.

For example, let's say you put on a set of headers and fail to go back and re-tighten the bolts after 100 miles or so (as directed in the instructions) and you end up with an exhaust leak.

If you take that to the dealer they can charge you for the repair.

On the other hand if you install a set of headers and something totally unrelated happens, like maybe the rear end starts making a noise or the A/C stops working...That would have nothing to do with the headers and the dealer cannot legally refuse to do warranty service on your car or change the warranty itself to avoid performing the required (and covered) service because of the headers being installed.

Bryan

MMA only applies to EO parts not "off-road only".

[bluedevil02]

these really sound great, now just a price estimate would seal the deal..

[GTAHVIT]

Originally Posted by HaveBlue

Guess you guys have missed this.

CARB OBDll COMPLIANCE

Information Regarding C.A.R.B. OBDII Compliance
Converters designated “California OBDII” are designed to meet the more stringent requirements as set forth by the California Air Resources Board. Converters bearing this designation perform better and are covered by warranty for a greater period of time than standard aftermarket replacement converters. It is important to note that CARB compliant OBDII converters can be used only for the specific applications as evaluated in the certification evaluation process. They are not designed to be universal converters and, as a result, they may NOT be used for any application not listed in the California Application Guide.

New California and EPA rules mandate that:
(A) The vehicle is specifically included in the vehicle California application list for which the new aftermarket catalytic converter has been exempted;

(B) The vehicle is more than 7 years old or has more than 70,000 miles on its odometer;

(C) The vehicle is beyond the coverage of the OEM catalyst warranty period (which can vary from 7 years or 70,000 miles to as high as 15 years or 150,000 miles). Installers may reference the vehicle owner’s manual/warranty booklet or contact the vehicle manufacturer or its representative to verify the applicable OEM catalyst warranty;

(D) The vehicle has a legitimate need for replacement of the existing converter that has been established and documented by the installer. The actual manufacturer’s warranty period for an individual vehicle is listed in the vehicle’s owner’s manual and/or warranty booklet. Examples of current warranty periods include seven years and 70,000 miles, eight years and 80,000 miles, and 15 years and 150,000 miles, depending on the vehicle. If the OEM converter is present, the installer must make a determination that it is not functioning properly before acting to replace it;

(E) The exempted new aftermarket catalytic converter is installed in the same location as the OEM catalytic converter it is designed to replace. The front face of the installed catalytic converter shall be no more than three inches further upstream or downstream in the exhaust from where the front face of the OEM catalytic converter was located. The installation may not alter the location, position, or orientation of oxygen sensors upstream and downstream of the catalytic converter(s);

(F) The exempted new aftermarket catalytic converter is installed on a one-for one catalytic converter basis;

(G) The exempted new aftermarket catalytic converter is installed with all other required catalytic converters (no consolidation of catalytic converters, nor addition of extra catalytic converters is allowed); and

(H) A California warranty card has been filled out by the installer, signed by the customer, attached to the repair invoice, and a copy returned to the manufacturer.

(I) Installers shall keep documentation regarding the installation of the new aftermarket catalytic converters including all of the above information. This documentation shall be made available to ARB or its representative as provided for in title 13, section 2222(b)(8). All such records shall be maintained for four years from the date of sale or installation of the catalytic converter.

Originally Posted by HaveBlue

MMA only applies to EO parts not "off-road only".

HaveBlue,

Maybe you should start you own thread on this... In that thread, not this one, maybe you can answer a couple questions.

How does the CA statndard apply to the rest of the country... and wouldn't this standard apply to any and all afermarket products that alter the stock exhaust or any product that isn't 50 state legal?

Thanks,

[HaveBlue]

Originally Posted by GTAHVIT

HaveBlue,

Maybe you should start you own thread on this... In that thread, not this one, maybe you can answer a couple questions.

How does the CA statndard apply to the rest of the country... and wouldn't this standard apply to any and all afermarket products that alter the stock exhaust or any product that isn't 50 state legal?

Thanks,

Sure, I'd be glad to. Be tonight, I'm on my way to the airport right now.
In the mean time the links I posted show Ca & 49 state Cat Info. Main difference is CA book keeping requirements and the stamp.
I posted the CA one for BBK since they are a CA company.

[BBKTECH]

My post was to inform users that the product fits and performs very well on the intended application.

I never said you should, or should not use it on the street.

As if I even need to say this- Check your local laws to see if this product is right for you and the smilin' Highway Patrol officer who might end up standing next to your driver door.

BBK sells parts to people all over the world, not just in CARB nation.

Biz is great in the UAE and Australia where the only things you have to watch for is Arab Drifters and Kangaroos.

Arab drifters are too stupid to link to (plus all of their vids are low quality), but here's a Roo on a race track-

[DON_RAFA]

Very interesting. Waiting on more info to see if its best to go with the shorties or LT. Should sound great with my MBRP exhaust and airaid intake ay!

[tcamp]

Not sure about other states, but in Cali you don't need to get your new car smogged for 7 years. I'm pretty ok with LT's and the one hour it may take to go back to stock if I still have the car in 7 years and need to get it smogged.