180° Headers

[pir4te]

Anyone here put a set of tuned crossovers on their LS? Dyno / Videos?

[2010reddevil]

Do you have any idea how difficult it would be to even attempt to fabricate a set of 180 deg headers for a front engine, rwd chassis? The only vehicles I'm aware of that can even attempt this is in a rear engine chassis like the old GT40 and Pantera. Besides that, the cost is not worth the gains. The sound would be extremely similar to the GT350 Voodoo engine.

From an exhaust fabricator stand point, the first thing you're gonna run into is trying to keep the pipes the same length. With 4 pipes crossing over to the opposite side, that will be nearly impossible. The second issue is where the hell are you gonna put them? Regular 4-1 headers meeting into a properly designed x-pipe will be very similar and sound good as well. Let's not use a crane to change a light bulb in the bathroom. . . .LOL.

[pir4te]

Thanks for getting back, yeah sound is important - this is a sonic experiment - gas particle flow has been sufficiently addressed with tuned PWTBs. My target is not 180° to promote flow through pulse separation, rather to reflect the sonic wave +90°, to hit next cylinder during overlap.
I've played with a few different off-the-shelf headers and PipeMax, now after doing the math am fabricating crossovers based on LS firing order 4-2-1s (Tri-Y).
Seems doable with just two ceramic coated crossover pipes underneath. Preliminary fitting and thermal issues addressed last week, should have a reasonably true prototype running mid week.
I am expecting it will sound like a Pantera but could well be closer to a Briggs & Stratton!

[2010reddevil]

Haha well good luck! It's gonna be a hell of a challenge, if it's even doable.

[USAFS197]

I've been eyeballing 180 degree header setups for a long time. With our given chassis configuration, I'm not entirely sure how it could be routed and still be efficient. However, a very quick search on YouTube will result in finding an old video of a C5 Corvette with 180 headers.

Either way, I'd be highly, highly interested if a company came out with a set that actually worked. Mayhaps a design such as this?

[christianchevell]

Yes what a wonderful way to heat the oil and fry the starter more than is already inherent with headers..... I am on my second starter... And this would absolutely be a bear, let alone a oil pump change would be further complicated as ..... But hey someone has to try everything at least once so we can learn from their mistakes if they just post what happens down the road..... does it make the oil hotter than a pistol, sure flows a little better and scavenges better but could cause a bunch of other things.....

You do know Pfadt is back in operation? and = does make tri y's....... they went out of business and now have been absorbed by another company in CAL....you may want to google them, they are worth it if your that obsessed with a few HP....

[pir4te]

Yes I saw that for SBC firing order, thanks.
One result with 180° opposed firing is better spaced pulses, but that's a side issue to me as I can manage gas particle flow, velocity and the double-pulse adequately with a tuned termination box per bank.
My idea to use crossover pipes is to fire sound waves back at more useful cylinder ignition intervals; clear header tube before EVO (+90°), into the chamber during Exhaust (+180°) and IVO/EVC extract on overlap (+270°).
A racing team here in the V8 Supercar series did a similar thing a couple of years back.

[pir4te]

Originally Posted by christianchevell

Yes what a wonderful way to heat the oil and fry the starter more than is already inherent with headers..... I am on my second starter... And this would absolutely be a bear, let alone a oil pump change would be further complicated as ..... But hey someone has to try everything at least once so we can learn from their mistakes if they just post what happens down the road..... does it make the oil hotter than a pistol, sure flows a little better and scavenges better but could cause a bunch of other things.....

You do know Pfadt is back in operation and = does make tri y's.......

Yeah hi again, I'm that pirate who takes the compression up to 14:1, installs VVT, tweaks AFM, does 35k miles a year on e85 and discount methylated spirits from the hardware store. 35+ MPG on ethanol, 630 BHP.
I have made a couple of tuned header systems before, so regarding heat in the section underneath, there is no issue with engine or trans oil and nowhere near the starter. Crossovers are ceramic coated, and flanged for separate remove / refit.
Pfadt are good, don't really fit the bill with ideal dimensions, cost and availability. And they don't crossover.

[shibbs]

pir4te, if you do make some crazy 180-degree headers, PLEASE post a good quality video.

[USAFS197]

Originally Posted by christianchevell

Yes what a wonderful way to heat the oil and fry the starter more than is already inherent with headers..... I am on my second starter... And this would absolutely be a bear, let alone a oil pump change would be further complicated as ..... But hey someone has to try everything at least once so we can learn from their mistakes if they just post what happens down the road..... does it make the oil hotter than a pistol, sure flows a little better and scavenges better but could cause a bunch of other things.....

You do know Pfadt is back in operation? and = does make tri y's....... they went out of business and now have been absorbed by another company in CAL....you may want to google them, they are worth it if your that obsessed with a few HP....

That was just a visual aid example, not necessarily something I'd like to fit in my particular vehicle. Also, I have zero interest in Pfadt (aFe) and their headers.

[Gearheaded]

I've seen videos of them on corvettes, sound truly amazing. I was always curious why it couldn't be done at the collectors, instead of the actual headers.

[JusticePete]

Subscribed.

[olblue75]

Originally Posted by JusticePete

Subscribed.

Same here

[Batmanntexas]

Originally Posted by pir4te

Yeah hi again, I'm that pirate who takes the compression up to 14:1, installs VVT, tweaks AFM, does 35k miles a year on e85 and discount methylated spirits from the hardware store. 35+ MPG on ethanol, 630 BHP.
I have made a couple of tuned header systems before, so regarding heat in the section underneath, there is no issue with engine or trans oil and nowhere near the starter. Crossovers are ceramic coated, and flanged for separate remove / refit.
Pfadt are good, don't really fit the bill with ideal dimensions, cost and availability. And they don't crossover.

I'd love to get 25+MPG on regular old 93 octane. Care to share any tuning tricks with a novice tuner? Sounds like you have a hell of a car, by the way!

-Scott

-Subscribed, also!