NEW GM: WHAT ABOUT THE RULES OF FREE ENTREPRISE?

[arozar]

Originally Posted by THE EVIL TW1N

You think the pre-1930's were some sort of golden age of business?? Those were some some of the most currupt times this country has ever seen.

No, I'm pretty sure now is.

[dbotsfordtat]

Originally Posted by arozar

No, I'm pretty sure now is.

No.

[GatorBlue371]

Originally Posted by arozar

No, I'm pretty sure now is.

Politics is as corrupt now as it has ever been. Buisness, not so much.





Even so, these things that you say about Obama nationalizing companies doesnt add up.

[MrIcky]

Originally Posted by dbotsfordtat

I don't have any kids and don't want to go through a depression for yours.

I don't particularly want my kids to have a huge tax burden for you (us) either. Which they will have.

There's no way you can get around the fact that the US debt is insanely large right now. And the general rule of thumb is that high national debt combined with a large amount money being thrown at the market spells inflation. Higher taxes and reduced access to money in the future is likely to reduce inflation pressure. Basically, the pain was likely made worse and spread over more time like putting 10g on a 21% apr credit card and paying minimum monthly payments. It feels good today-10 years from now you'll wish you hadn't done that.

I'm not glibly throwing out free-market ideology, and I understand precisely what this does to the suppliers. I also understand why it was more important to bail out the banks even though it makes your hair stand up.

There's a lot of wrong information on here guys, sorry-. The US has never been a true free market economy, there have been tariffs since 1790 on some goods. Only tariffs between states were prohibited. The Fed's intervened on behalf of cotton growers way back in 1801 or something like that. So I don't buy the 'preserve the freemarket' mantra as a reason to do this, nor can you look at any point in American History and say the government didn't interfere with business. They may not have regulated business at all times, but they certainly interfered and protected some businesses while allowing others to languish.

My issues with where we are stem from the fact that we have a pretty well documented set of effects when we start pressing levers. I personally wonder if we've f'ed our kids out of their chance. We're beyond the point that we can just grow our economy to cover the debt, we'll likely have to allow inflation at some point because that makes it easier to resolve debts at the national level. That has a long-tail effect on Americans though.

[dbotsfordtat]

We all have a tax burden from prior generations AND special interest groups such as children, disabled, ect... I don't have a problem with my tax dollars going to programs for this, in fact I would like to see more of my tax dollars going to social programs for the citizens of our country, starting with universal healthcare. I believe the working class in our country already pay enough taxes to cover those programs, healthcare and a meager SS check if we make it to 62. My problem is with folks spouting off MSM BS about where the problem lies. In the past 2o years we've had a huge surge in the number of people falling into poverty and at the same time a record number of billionaires here in America, we now have about 400 billionaires. The gap between CEO pay and the average worker is at record levels. The problem doesn't stem from the working class, letting GM go chapter 7 and sending the country into a greater depression isn't going to solve the problem for future generations.

[JaysonAych]

Originally Posted by dbotsfordtat

In the past 2o years we've had a huge surge in the number of people falling into poverty and at the same time a record number of billionaires here in America, we now have about 400 billionaires. The gap between CEO pay and the average worker is at record levels. The problem doesn't stem from the working class, letting GM go chapter 7 and sending the country into a greater depression isn't going to solve the problem for future generations.

I'd read an issue of Time several months back with a chart that showed that in the last several years leading up to the stock market tanking last year, the gap between the super-rich in the upper 1% and the middle and lower classes was at it's highest point since just before the Great Depression. Since the Depression, that gap had been fairly modest until the last several years before the gap exploded open. All this money has just been hoarded or passed along to more of the super-rich...a disproportionately small amount of it is being invested in tangibly strengthening companies and communities here at home or being used to reward hard-working middle-and-lower class workers or improving their benefits and environments. It's been cuts cuts cuts, and moving jobs overseas to satisfy other super-rich investors and to get more executive bonuses.

[dbotsfordtat]

Originally Posted by JaysonAych

I'd read an issue of Time several months back with a chart that showed that in the last several years leading up to the stock market tanking last year, the gap between the super-rich in the upper 1% and the middle and lower classes was at it's highest point since just before the Great Depression. Since the Depression, that gap had been fairly modest until the last several years before the gap exploded open. All this money has just been hoarded or passed along to more of the super-rich...a disproportionately small amount of it is being invested in tangibly strengthening companies and communities here at home or being used to reward hard-working middle-and-lower class workers or improving their benefits and environments. It's been cuts cuts cuts, and moving jobs overseas to satisfy other super-rich investors and to get more executive bonuses.

You wrote it much better than me. I wish people would wake up and stop accepting this as how it has to be. The game is fixed but there are way more of us than them, we can change it. No one has to be hungry, homeless or living a life of quiet desperation.

[GatorBlue371]

Originally Posted by JaysonAych

I'd read an issue of Time several months back with a chart that showed that in the last several years leading up to the stock market tanking last year, the gap between the super-rich in the upper 1% and the middle and lower classes was at it's highest point since just before the Great Depression. Since the Depression, that gap had been fairly modest until the last several years before the gap exploded open. All this money has just been hoarded or passed along to more of the super-rich...a disproportionately small amount of it is being invested in tangibly strengthening companies and communities here at home or being used to reward hard-working middle-and-lower class workers or improving their benefits and environments. It's been cuts cuts cuts, and moving jobs overseas to satisfy other super-rich investors and to get more executive bonuses.

You know, I talked to a man 4 years ago, (this thing really started about 2 years ago) and he told me exactly what was going to happen.


He talked about the oil going up and down, people blaming the presidency, the world markets crashing, and every part of this in great detail.


How did he know? well. Take this however you'd like to take it, but he talked about Edgar Cayce predicting an economic decline every 30-40 years in this country.


depression... 1929-1935...

you had the oil crissis in the 70s...

and 2007 you have another crash.



Hm.

Thought it was interesting as well that Edgar Cayce talked about a possible WW3 being fought by something triggered in the middle east.


I looked this guy up... I think he died in.. 1912?

[THE EVIL TW1N]

Originally Posted by JaysonAych

...the gap between the super-rich in the upper 1% and the middle and lower classes was at it's highest point since just before the Great Depression. Since the Depression, that gap had been fairly modest until the last several years before the gap exploded open....

Fairly modest gap? Are you kidding? By 1989 that "modest gap" had the top 1% owning more assets than the bottom 80%. That's a ratio typical of a third world country.

[JaysonAych]

Originally Posted by THE EVIL TW1N

Fairly modest gap? Are you kidding? By 1989 that "modest gap" had the top 1% owning more assets than the bottom 80%. That's a ratio typical of a third world country.

It might have been around that time in the chart that the gap started to widen...I don't have that issue and I'm trying to find it online, but having little luck. I think I remember it the chart illustrated a rise in that gap in the mid-80s, but as big as that was, that gap would get far higher in later years.

[Fireball]

Originally Posted by leifhain

UNBELIEVABLE THE US GOVERNMENT IS TAKING OVER GM. THIS IS AGAINST THE RULES OF FREE ENTREPRISE. IT FALSIFIES COMPETITION AND IT PUNISHES COMPANIES THAT SURVIVED THE CRISIS AND TOOK RESPONSABILITY FOR THE JOBS OF THEIR WORKERS.

The American people voted against free enterprise and voted for government handouts. So they will get what they voted for: a European-style stagnation where everyone gets subsistence-level handouts from a Paternalistic State: stimulus checks, welfare checks, food stamps, college tuition, Medicare, Medicade, social security checks, free money from government -- you name it. True, society will collapse if this is not corrected, but this is the problem with unlimited majority rule.

America's Founding Fathers set up a Constitutional Republic to avoid the grotesque spectacle we are witnessing today. But thanks to President Woodrow Wilson and Franklin Roosevelt, that Constitutional Republic has ended and we now live in a mob-rule Democracy.

Indeed, even the Ancient Greeks understood that unbridled Democracy is the worst form of government.

[arozar]

Originally Posted by Fireball

The American people voted against free enterprise and voted for government handouts. So they will get what they voted for: a European-style stagnation where everyone gets subsistence-level handouts from a Paternalistic State: stimulus checks, welfare checks, food stamps, college tuition, Medicare, Medicade, social security checks, free money from government -- you name it. True, society will collapse if this is not corrected, but this is the problem with unlimited majority rule.

America's Founding Fathers set up a Constitutional Republic to avoid the grotesque spectacle we are witnessing today. But thanks to President Woodrow Wilson and Franklin Roosevelt, that Constitutional Republic has ended and we now live in a mob-rule Democracy.

Indeed, even the Ancient Greeks understood that unbridled Democracy is the worst form of government.

[DeathChill]

Originally Posted by Fireball

The American people voted against free enterprise and voted for government handouts. So they will get what they voted for: a European-style stagnation where everyone gets subsistence-level handouts from a Paternalistic State: stimulus checks, welfare checks, food stamps, college tuition, Medicare, Medicade, social security checks, free money from government -- you name it. True, society will collapse if this is not corrected, but this is the problem with unlimited majority rule.

America's Founding Fathers set up a Constitutional Republic to avoid the grotesque spectacle we are witnessing today. But thanks to President Woodrow Wilson and Franklin Roosevelt, that Constitutional Republic has ended and we now live in a mob-rule Democracy.

Indeed, even the Ancient Greeks understood that unbridled Democracy is the worst form of government.

I'm curious why so many American people seem to be against universal health care.

I'm from Canada and I love that no matter what I can take my daughter to the doctor's and not worry about it, nor do I have to worry about making some crazy insurance payment when I am jobless (note: I'm not, but everyone's been there).

I also love that it didn't cost me a dime to have my daughter. I walked in with my pregnant fiance and walked out with my daughter.

EDIT: I may have misunderstood, but I am curious as it seems to be something I hear a lot.

[GTAHVIT]

Sorry this is not the Site for this conversation.

Closed.