How Many Cancelling Order if no ABL (ambient lighting) ? - Page 17 - Camaro5 Chevy Camaro Forum / Camaro ZL1, SS and V6 Forums

zzz28zzz · 12-27-2008, 08:26 PM

At first when I saw the ABL video I thought that i was kinda goofy. A way of candy coating a car that needs no candy coating. Then after all this time waiting and researching and waiting and wanting and waiting...and waiting...and waiting......
ABL kind of grew on me. It is a pretty cool OPTION. I think that I will really enjoy the ABL in my 2010 victory red Camaro 2SS RS. If GM doesn't get the bug fixed, leave it off, don't give me something halfassed in my dream car. When it gets fixed, let me know so I can bring the car in and get it put in.

Captain Awesome · 12-28-2008, 12:48 AM

I didn't cancel my order over this, but it did cause me to NOT place an order which I was about to do in spite of some of the other things I was annoyed with (like the missing HUD)

They did come through on the BLUE SS which I wanted. But No HUD and No Blue was a deal breaker for me. Once they put BLUE on the menu, I was shopping dealers to see what deal I would get... then this came out and so another negative to add with the missing HUD once again put me off the market.

The way I see it, if I get one NOW then that's nice and all, but I would want it as close to perfect as possible. In a year's time I will be able to get one below MSRP and have all the toys, so the ONLY reason to spend the extra money to get one ASAP is to have it before anyone else... but I'm not into that. Maybe some people are.

I'm not willing to pay extra for a car I'm not 100% pleased with knowing I will pay less later for one I would be more pleased with.

I think a lot of people are like me in this regard and don't "need" to "be first", but that doesn't make us any LESS of an enthusiast. We're just more practical.

If I made millions of dollars a year, then maybe I could throw away money on the car and then get another one with my favorite options LATER... but I buy these things and drive them for 6, 7, 8, 9, or maybe 10 years.... I don't want to live that long knowing I didn't get the options I loved.

I bet there are plenty of folke just like me.

SdustinK · 12-28-2008, 02:47 AM

My new bimmer has no problems with its abl i have no idea why gm would

Timberline · 12-28-2008, 07:22 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Tantalizer43

I say go for it. There is almost nothing constructive in this thread anymore.

We should support each others concerns and keep our fingers crossed!

Well said Tantalizer43.
This thread is the craziest thread on here and it has been going down hill since it started.

70 COPO · 12-28-2008, 10:18 AM

Supression of how buyers feel is the WRONG answer for GM. As long as the thread does not get insulting or personal It should be left open.

IMO...To close it will send a Chilling Effect that will be bad for the forum.

Tantalizer43 · 12-28-2008, 10:27 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by 70 COPO

Supression of how buyers feel is the WRONG answer for GM. As long as the thread does not get insulting or personal It should be left open.

IMO...To close it will send a Chilling Effect that will be bad for the forum.

I agree with you 110% COPO, I just think it has and will continue to get personal.

I also wrote my concern on this thread, and I absoultely want GM to read it!

70 COPO · 12-28-2008, 10:54 AM

I am a moderator on another Camaro site. It is a tough job. From previous experience -It gets tougher if you fail to deal with the troublemakers.

Making the entire community suffer for the off the handle antics of a select few - punish the entire group. Thread needs to stay open, board rules for conduct need to be enforced.

Captain Awesome · 12-28-2008, 11:18 AM

I agree. Shutting down legitimate threads because they are not glowing praise for the subject of a forum is lame. Censoring posts that are not glowing praise is also bad form if the posts are civil but simply just negative.

Deleting obvious troublemakers who are not civil IS okay.

*GTAHVIT* · 12-28-2008, 12:08 PM

If any of you think I want to shut this down because it is critical to GM than you have the wrong idea about how we moderate this site. Maybe you didn't mean to offend me but for the record I am offended.

My advice. Pick you words more carefully. We are in no way asking anyone to turn a blind eye to what is going on. All we've ever asked of all of our members is to be constructive in your complaint and criticism and don't let it get personal. Yes, it is hard to close a conversation because a few people let it get personal. It's also just as annoying to see the same thread over and over again with the same complaint over and over again. So in the interest of all our member we make the tough and sometimes unpopular decisions to close some threads.

But the insinuation that we won't allow any criticism of GM is insulting to all the staff here.

Now,

To get back on topic. Feel free to do what you want as the result of ambient lighting. Justify your decision however you like. The bottom line is GM may not be able to get it done in time for SORP. It may be an impossibility. And as such it is a promise unfulfilled. So, if they can't and you aren't satisfied with what ever they do to offset it to the consumer then don't buy the car until you get what you want.

If GM can do it they will. If they can't do it they won't. Trying to push them to do something they can't do whether they promised it or not won't make something that is impossible suddenly possible. We, the consumer will just have to make a decision based on whatever GM can deliver.

I don't really see why this argument needs to be rehashed over and over again. The poll is: will you cancel your order if no ambient lighting? That should be adequate to send your message to GM. What makes any of us think that GM just had a meeting one day and said, "you know, I think we'll just skip the interior lighting. I know we promised it but who cares." Instead, why can't we see GM as already doing everything they can to get it right and on time. And trust that if they can't, they tried everything in their power to get it done and fell short.

I have zero insight as to what is going to happen. I've said numerous times that I sympathize with those who see this as a critical part of the car.

But, in brutal honesty. It's getting very old.

StoutFiles · 12-28-2008, 12:21 PM

Quote:

Instead, why can't we see GM as already doing everything they can to get it right and on time. And trust that if they can't, they tried everything in their power to get it done and fell short.

There wouldn't be this many threads and we wouldn't still be talking about it if just ONE person from GM would tell us something about what's going on.

Quote:

"you know, I think we'll just skip the interior lighting. I know we promised it but who cares."

Honestly...I wouldn't be shocked. Besides their money and time constraints, ambient lighting is something that's only going in their 2lt and 2ss cars. They haven't shown it off at any of the car shows and have been told not to. They haven't really begun advertising the car so the amount of people who even know about the ambient lighting is pretty small. It wouldn't be too hard for GM to have the issue of it being missing just sort of...fade awayyyyy....

I really don't know what GM is doing with ABL though...nobody here does. Hopefully they realize that removing ABL isn't just a style issue, it's a credibility issue. Best to remind them again and again though then assume they already know that since we still don't know what's going on with it. These topics will end when GM opens their mouth...until then we can only hope these topics do not end as a sign that everything is important.

*GTAHVIT* · 12-28-2008, 01:23 PM

Well then you have every right to cancel your order.

I don't see why so many of us want to make this out to be deliberate negligence on GM's part.

My guess is there is no room for any mistakes whatsoever?

I'll be the first to admit that I have made more than a few promises that I couldn't deliver on, and I had to pay the consequences for doing so. But no matter how mad the people I let down were, it never changed that fact that I couldn't keep my word... Sometimes I was able to reconcile through another offer, other times I couldn't. But all the complaining in the world didn't get me to do something that I couldn't.

If some of us just don't want to allow GM the room to break a promise then I say you are holding them to a standard that no other person, company or organization can achieve. If this is truly the measure against GM will be judged, then they will never be able to satisfy us. Never.

That attitude seems to be very unreasonable to me.

And for the record, Just as many members are annoyed by the repetitive argument as are annoyed by the lack of information regarding ambient lighting.... At some point we need to do what best for the site. In spite of the importance of any given thread.

It's not as easy as it may seem.

70 COPO · 12-28-2008, 01:29 PM

gtahvit

Good! Thanks for chiming in on this topic. Now that you have, you will no doubt take action to correct signatures that openly violate board rules right?

I am picking my words carefully so I do not offend you

*GTAHVIT* · 12-28-2008, 01:37 PM

COPO,

Send me a PM on that issue as it is better suited for a private conversation. I have to log off but will reply as soon as I can get back online. Probably this evening.

I may not take any more action than I already have. I'll wait to decide that until you've given me more information. As you are a Mod on another site, I hope you can appreciate that. As always if I can't make up my mind I will consult the other Mods and follow their recommendation.

Respectfully,

Chris

69lemansblue · 12-28-2008, 02:24 PM

Wait! Does this mean they won't have the little perfume nozzle that spritzes you everytime you get in or out of the car?
CANCEL MY ORDER!!!!!!!!!
But seriously, what IS ambient lighting and what does it matter? Does my '69 have it?
I do have the light above that goes on and off when you open and close the door.

12-28-2008, 02:47 AM	#227
SdustinK Drives: 2009 335i Coupe Join Date: Sep 2008 Location: Coto De Caza, CA Posts: 215	My new bimmer has no problems with its abl i have no idea why gm would __________________ 2010 Black 2SS/RS

12-28-2008, 12:08 PM	#233
GTAHVIT Blessed Drives: 2013 Sonic RS MT Join Date: Dec 2007 Location: Saint Augustine FL Posts: 28,444 View My Garage	If any of you think I want to shut this down because it is critical to GM than you have the wrong idea about how we moderate this site. Maybe you didn't mean to offend me but for the record I am offended. My advice. Pick you words more carefully. We are in no way asking anyone to turn a blind eye to what is going on. All we've ever asked of all of our members is to be constructive in your complaint and criticism and don't let it get personal. Yes, it is hard to close a conversation because a few people let it get personal. It's also just as annoying to see the same thread over and over again with the same complaint over and over again. So in the interest of all our member we make the tough and sometimes unpopular decisions to close some threads. But the insinuation that we won't allow any criticism of GM is insulting to all the staff here. Now, To get back on topic. Feel free to do what you want as the result of ambient lighting. Justify your decision however you like. The bottom line is GM may not be able to get it done in time for SORP. It may be an impossibility. And as such it is a promise unfulfilled. So, if they can't and you aren't satisfied with what ever they do to offset it to the consumer then don't buy the car until you get what you want. If GM can do it they will. If they can't do it they won't. Trying to push them to do something they can't do whether they promised it or not won't make something that is impossible suddenly possible. We, the consumer will just have to make a decision based on whatever GM can deliver. I don't really see why this argument needs to be rehashed over and over again. The poll is: will you cancel your order if no ambient lighting? That should be adequate to send your message to GM. What makes any of us think that GM just had a meeting one day and said, "you know, I think we'll just skip the interior lighting. I know we promised it but who cares." Instead, why can't we see GM as already doing everything they can to get it right and on time. And trust that if they can't, they tried everything in their power to get it done and fell short. I have zero insight as to what is going to happen. I've said numerous times that I sympathize with those who see this as a critical part of the car. But, in brutal honesty. It's getting very old. __________________ Click image to see build thread. PQ - "the love of cars. It's a boys first step toward manhood and a mans last hold on boyhood." Fbodfather - "We do not want to use the Z28 moniker on a car that does not deserve this hallowed name." The_Blur - "Let's not confuse competitors with equals."

12-28-2008, 01:23 PM	#235
GTAHVIT Blessed Drives: 2013 Sonic RS MT Join Date: Dec 2007 Location: Saint Augustine FL Posts: 28,444 View My Garage	Well then you have every right to cancel your order. I don't see why so many of us want to make this out to be deliberate negligence on GM's part. My guess is there is no room for any mistakes whatsoever? I'll be the first to admit that I have made more than a few promises that I couldn't deliver on, and I had to pay the consequences for doing so. But no matter how mad the people I let down were, it never changed that fact that I couldn't keep my word... Sometimes I was able to reconcile through another offer, other times I couldn't. But all the complaining in the world didn't get me to do something that I couldn't. If some of us just don't want to allow GM the room to break a promise then I say you are holding them to a standard that no other person, company or organization can achieve. If this is truly the measure against GM will be judged, then they will never be able to satisfy us. Never. That attitude seems to be very unreasonable to me. And for the record, Just as many members are annoyed by the repetitive argument as are annoyed by the lack of information regarding ambient lighting.... At some point we need to do what best for the site. In spite of the importance of any given thread. It's not as easy as it may seem. __________________ Click image to see build thread. PQ - "the love of cars. It's a boys first step toward manhood and a mans last hold on boyhood." Fbodfather - "We do not want to use the Z28 moniker on a car that does not deserve this hallowed name." The_Blur - "Let's not confuse competitors with equals."

12-28-2008, 01:37 PM	#237
GTAHVIT Blessed Drives: 2013 Sonic RS MT Join Date: Dec 2007 Location: Saint Augustine FL Posts: 28,444 View My Garage	COPO, Send me a PM on that issue as it is better suited for a private conversation. I have to log off but will reply as soon as I can get back online. Probably this evening. I may not take any more action than I already have. I'll wait to decide that until you've given me more information. As you are a Mod on another site, I hope you can appreciate that. As always if I can't make up my mind I will consult the other Mods and follow their recommendation. Respectfully, Chris __________________ Click image to see build thread. PQ - "the love of cars. It's a boys first step toward manhood and a mans last hold on boyhood." Fbodfather - "We do not want to use the Z28 moniker on a car that does not deserve this hallowed name." The_Blur - "Let's not confuse competitors with equals."

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12-27-2008, 08:26 PM	#225
zzz28zzz Drives: 2010 Chev Camaro 2SS/RS VR - Join Date: Jul 2007 Location: Milford - Ohio Posts: 200	At first when I saw the ABL video I thought that i was kinda goofy. A way of candy coating a car that needs no candy coating. Then after all this time waiting and researching and waiting and wanting and waiting...and waiting...and waiting...... ABL kind of grew on me. It is a pretty cool OPTION. I think that I will really enjoy the ABL in my 2010 victory red Camaro 2SS RS. If GM doesn't get the bug fixed, leave it off, don't give me something halfassed in my dream car. When it gets fixed, let me know so I can bring the car in and get it put in.

12-28-2008, 12:48 AM	#226
Captain Awesome Account Suspended Drives: 2010 Camaro 2SS/RS Join Date: Apr 2008 Location: New York Posts: 3,746	I didn't cancel my order over this, but it did cause me to NOT place an order which I was about to do in spite of some of the other things I was annoyed with (like the missing HUD) They did come through on the BLUE SS which I wanted. But No HUD and No Blue was a deal breaker for me. Once they put BLUE on the menu, I was shopping dealers to see what deal I would get... then this came out and so another negative to add with the missing HUD once again put me off the market. The way I see it, if I get one NOW then that's nice and all, but I would want it as close to perfect as possible. In a year's time I will be able to get one below MSRP and have all the toys, so the ONLY reason to spend the extra money to get one ASAP is to have it before anyone else... but I'm not into that. Maybe some people are. I'm not willing to pay extra for a car I'm not 100% pleased with knowing I will pay less later for one I would be more pleased with. I think a lot of people are like me in this regard and don't "need" to "be first", but that doesn't make us any LESS of an enthusiast. We're just more practical. If I made millions of dollars a year, then maybe I could throw away money on the car and then get another one with my favorite options LATER... but I buy these things and drive them for 6, 7, 8, 9, or maybe 10 years.... I don't want to live that long knowing I didn't get the options I loved. I bet there are plenty of folke just like me.

12-28-2008, 10:18 AM	#229
70 COPO Banned Drives: Multiple Camaro's Join Date: Oct 2008 Location: Chillicothe, Ohio Posts: 134	Supression of how buyers feel is the WRONG answer for GM. As long as the thread does not get insulting or personal It should be left open. IMO...To close it will send a Chilling Effect that will be bad for the forum.

12-28-2008, 10:54 AM	#231
70 COPO Banned Drives: Multiple Camaro's Join Date: Oct 2008 Location: Chillicothe, Ohio Posts: 134	I am a moderator on another Camaro site. It is a tough job. From previous experience -It gets tougher if you fail to deal with the troublemakers. Making the entire community suffer for the off the handle antics of a select few - punish the entire group. Thread needs to stay open, board rules for conduct need to be enforced.

12-28-2008, 11:18 AM	#232
Captain Awesome Account Suspended Drives: 2010 Camaro 2SS/RS Join Date: Apr 2008 Location: New York Posts: 3,746	I agree. Shutting down legitimate threads because they are not glowing praise for the subject of a forum is lame. Censoring posts that are not glowing praise is also bad form if the posts are civil but simply just negative. Deleting obvious troublemakers who are not civil IS okay.

12-28-2008, 01:29 PM	#236
70 COPO Banned Drives: Multiple Camaro's Join Date: Oct 2008 Location: Chillicothe, Ohio Posts: 134	gtahvit Good! Thanks for chiming in on this topic. Now that you have, you will no doubt take action to correct signatures that openly violate board rules right? I am picking my words carefully so I do not offend you

12-28-2008, 02:24 PM	#238
69lemansblue Drives: 69 Camaro Join Date: Dec 2008 Location: hot springs, sd Posts: 1	Wait! Does this mean they won't have the little perfume nozzle that spritzes you everytime you get in or out of the car? CANCEL MY ORDER!!!!!!!!! But seriously, what IS ambient lighting and what does it matter? Does my '69 have it? I do have the light above that goes on and off when you open and close the door.