Handling Upgrades - Camaro5 Chevy Camaro Forum / Camaro ZL1, SS and V6 Forums

Rainbow1616 · 05-14-2021, 09:12 AM

I know this has been beaten to death but the more I read the more confused I am. I have read JPs book on suspension which tells me all the faults but not really where to begin.
I am done with the performance upgrades but now with the added power the handling deficiencies are very noticeable.
I do all my own work but I don't know where to begin. I do go to the track but not very often. I do not go to the drag strip.
My initial budget is 900-1K. It doesn't have to be perfect but it needs to handle a lot better.
I read cradle bushings, sway bars toe links etc etc. I'm just looking for the biggest bang for the buck. I have watched videos about cradle bushings and not sure I want to tackle that on jack stands.
Would I be wrong to add sway bars and see what that does for me?

Thanks in advance for any advice.

Avenging Orange · 05-14-2021, 10:39 AM

The is no "real" starting point. You know the weak links...and already set a budget. Pick an area and start.
You already answered your question...cradle bushings are the best bang for the buck....but not sure you want to take on. Then go to next step. "Personally," I would probably go with better springs and upgraded shocks/struts. Then tackle the conversion to fe4. (LCA's and rear sway bar). For me, that would be a good start. The rest are bushings and most are fairly easy install (depending on how deep/involved you plan to get). Good luck.

Wacko37 · 05-14-2021, 03:06 PM

Decide now on what you want to plan for! I say this because if your going to eventually maybe make it a track monster, Go monoball/solid everything and avoid poly. If your plan is always a street toy, then poly is fine. Going from poly to mono's or solid bushings not only sucks but you cant help but to think you waisted more money than you thought you were saving.

CamaroCracka · 05-14-2021, 03:29 PM

Pretty much agree with Orange. Cradle bushings, FE4 conversion, springs and shocks, front bar. The 1LE uses the same springs as the SS so if you have to scrimp somewhere in the short run, you could just go with stock springs and 1LE shocks or Bilstein's. Justice Pete suggests the 32mm rear bar for 1LEs, so if you with go with a 27mm front, 32mm rear and monotube shocks like the 1LE, that is what you would have.

I went from a 2010 suspension to poly cradle bushings and FE4 with a ZL1 front bar and 1LE rear bar. The change was very obvious. Then I went Z28 shocks and springs and that was just as obvious an improvement although too harsh for some. I just replaced the poly's with solid bushings just because I can't leave things alone. The poly's will find a home in the vert this summer.

The radius arm inserts are a pretty cheap upgrade and the Z28 uses them. I put them in on the first build. It's and easy upgrade.

The toe rods, trailing arms, rear UCA, etc. are more for drag racing. I have them too, but I drag race the car too. I would include them eventually, but not necessarily on the first pass if you don't drag race.

Rainbow1616 · 05-14-2021, 04:35 PM

Thank you for the great info. I would like to go to the track a little more but its just for pure enjoyment. I have no visions of being competitive, those days have passed *lol*
I do not plan to drag at all. I am happy with the power it produces with headers, exhaust , intake, throttle body etc. I have no desire to take that to the next step.
I just want the steering and handling to be much better. I know when I step on it the rear end has a mind of its own even in a straight line.
It sounded like sway bars would be the easiest upgrade but if you experts say cradle bushings first then I guess I can tackle that. Looking at Cradle bushings alone though there are many choices? I only want to do it once so if you say solid that's fine. I can afford more but getting it past the wife is the biggest hurdle.

Yea I know that's sad.
So any solid aluminum cradle bushings?

SIM GhostrdrZ · 05-14-2021, 04:50 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Rainbow1616

Thank you for the great info. I would like to go to the track a little more but its just for pure enjoyment. I have no visions of being competitive, those days have passed *lol*
I do not plan to drag at all. I am happy with the power it produces with headers, exhaust , intake, throttle body etc. I have no desire to take that to the next step.
I just want the steering and handling to be much better. I know when I step on it the rear end has a mind of its own even in a straight line.
It sounded like sway bars would be the easiest upgrade but if you experts say cradle bushings first then I guess I can tackle that. Looking at Cradle bushings alone though there are many choices? I only want to do it once so if you say solid that's fine. I can afford more but getting it past the wife is the biggest hurdle.

Yea I know that's sad.
So any solid aluminum cradle bushings?

Solid aluminum bushings for sure first. Get some from forum member if you can to save $. But Pegasus or Detroit. Might be a few others. The BMR pro bushings are a great choice if you must. Look for forum members ads for 1le stuff but fe4 bars are a must. A good set of shocks but you’ll blow your budget on good ones so keep the for sale suspension thread open until you find all your looking for.

The bushings are very doable and if your apprehensive, PM me. I’m just west of you across the boarder if you need anything.
Good luck

PS
I think I have solid BMR rear upper arm bushings I installed in the brackets from when I replaced those with the Delrin BMR brackets on my 1ls which I don’t have any longer.
Those are a great upgrade as well.

Rainbow1616 · 05-14-2021, 06:51 PM

It looks like Pegasus is no longer in business. Would aFE solid bushings be a good choice? Or Hendrix?

AG1LE · 05-14-2021, 09:24 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Rainbow1616

It looks like Pegasus is no longer in business. Would aFE solid bushings be a good choice? Or Hendrix?

aFe is a good option for solid subframe bushings - these are the same design as the old Pfadt solid bushings which i have. Looks like the Hendix would be as well.

Avenging Orange · 05-15-2021, 07:24 AM

There will be some who say coilovers and call it a day. There are so many options. If you read Pete's article closely, you'll see there are really only a few true weak points. You will also see the front sway upgrade is not really needed. As with many a vehicles built on this platform...it is the rear suspension (namely cradle and diff bushes...and the rear sway upgrade) that really needs to be addressed. Then the front radius rod bushing. Then likely springs w/shocks & struts.
Fyi, I'm just speaking in terms of the simplest of upgrades that should easily address your style of driving (Just my opinion).
I have never owed a car with coilovers (rode and driven a few), but never had one long enough to give a thorough impression.
Just bear in mind, you can read too deep into suspension upgrades and end up with something that becomes unbrearable to drive...so tread lightly and start slow.

Ruger2506 · 05-15-2021, 07:42 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Avenging Orange

There will be some who say coilovers and call it a day. There are so many options. If you read Pete's article closely, you'll see there are really only a few true weak points. You will also see the front sway upgrade is not really needed. As with many a vehicles built on this platform...it is the rear suspension (namely cradle and diff bushes...and the rear sway upgrade) that really needs to be addressed. Then the front radius rod bushing. Then likely springs w/shocks & struts.
Fyi, I'm just speaking in terms of the simplest of upgrades that should easily address your style of driving (Just my opinion).
I have never owed a car with coilovers (rode and driven a few), but never had one long enough to give a thorough impression.
Just bear in mind, you can read too deep into suspension upgrades and end up with something that becomes unbrearable to drive...so tread lightly and start slow.

Interesting point. I had planned the following upgrades:

-Bilstein B6 struts (front and rear)
-Strut Tower Brace
-Sub-Frame Bushing Kit
-Lowering Springs
-Crossmember Bushings
-Differential Bushings
-Front Radius Rod Bushings
-front and rear sway bars

It this over the top for a car that will never see a track? lots of twisty hilly roads to play on.

Rainbow1616 · 05-20-2021, 10:31 AM

Ok, I decided to start with the Cradle Bushings. I am confident I will continue to just use this car for fun with an occasional track trip.
So now the question is should I go poly bushings or solid? How does each affect ride quality? I only want to do it once and I don't mind the price tag of either one.
So solid or poly?

Avenging Orange · 05-20-2021, 10:52 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Rainbow1616

Ok, I decided to start with the Cradle Bushings. I am confident I will continue to just use this car for fun with an occasional track trip.
So now the question is should I go poly bushings or solid? How does each affect ride quality? I only want to do it once and I don't mind the price tag of either one.
So solid or poly?

Depends on how much and how hard you drive it. Poly can last the life of the car. Solids are very popular and work very well. Lastly, I forgot to mention earlier......tires will also play an important roll in your suspension. When I got my Conti extreme summer tires, I was floored at how much they improved the handling. Really sticky tire.

Avenging Orange · 05-20-2021, 10:57 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Ruger2506

Interesting point. I had planned the following upgrades:

-Bilstein B6 struts (front and rear)
-Strut Tower Brace
-Sub-Frame Bushing Kit
-Lowering Springs
-Crossmember Bushings
-Differential Bushings
-Front Radius Rod Bushings
-front and rear sway bars

It this over the top for a car that will never see a track? lots of twisty hilly roads to play on.

Not really overkill. Just be aware of the combo of lowering springs, Diff bushings, cradle bushings + hard dampers can result in a harsh noisy ride. Why I only upgrades to fe4 shocks/struts. Kinda smoothed out the ride without compromise.

Rainbow1616 · 05-20-2021, 11:33 AM

I’ve tried a few different tires. I’m currently on the Firestone Firehawk Indy 500s. They seem to handle well but it’s hard to tell with the rear end issues.
I’ll never run all seasons. Even when I drove it all year round I had dedicated snow tires.
Should I just install solid and never look back? I will probably keep this car then pass it down to my son at some point. I don’t plan on getting rid of it.

05-14-2021, 09:12 AM	#1
Rainbow1616 Drives: 2011 Inferno Orange Camaro 2SS/RS Join Date: Nov 2011 Location: Pittsburgh, PA Posts: 1,368	Handling Upgrades I know this has been beaten to death but the more I read the more confused I am. I have read JPs book on suspension which tells me all the faults but not really where to begin. I am done with the performance upgrades but now with the added power the handling deficiencies are very noticeable. I do all my own work but I don't know where to begin. I do go to the track but not very often. I do not go to the drag strip. My initial budget is 900-1K. It doesn't have to be perfect but it needs to handle a lot better. I read cradle bushings, sway bars toe links etc etc. I'm just looking for the biggest bang for the buck. I have watched videos about cradle bushings and not sure I want to tackle that on jack stands. Would I be wrong to add sway bars and see what that does for me? Thanks in advance for any advice.

05-14-2021, 10:39 AM	#2
Avenging Orange Drives: 2010 Inferno Orange 2SS/RS Join Date: Apr 2010 Location: Clermont, IN Posts: 3,297	The is no "real" starting point. You know the weak links...and already set a budget. Pick an area and start. You already answered your question...cradle bushings are the best bang for the buck....but not sure you want to take on. Then go to next step. "Personally," I would probably go with better springs and upgraded shocks/struts. Then tackle the conversion to fe4. (LCA's and rear sway bar). For me, that would be a good start. The rest are bushings and most are fairly easy install (depending on how deep/involved you plan to get). Good luck. __________________ 2010 Inferno Orange 2SS/RS M6 Black Leather, Sun Roof, OBX Headers, Borla touring axle back, Cold Air Inductions CAI , non synthetic fluids, BMR total bushing upgrade/1" lowering springs, DSE 32mm rear sway bar. GM fe4 shocks/struts/LCA's, AAM 3.91 diff, Vertini RFS1.8 20x9 +30. Conti ExtremeContact Sport 275/35/20. sjm autoprod ABL dash kit. Mike Norris tuned 413/419. Avenging Orange: 43 years of not buying into the Hype........and damn proud of it!! https://youtu.be/9JD9it6SmB8 https://youtu.be/xmelTlEzI34 KICKING CANCERS ASS SINCE 2015!!

05-14-2021, 03:06 PM	#3
Wacko37 Drives: 2010 2SS/RS & 2007 2500HD D-Max Join Date: Dec 2014 Location: SW OK Posts: 322	Decide now on what you want to plan for! I say this because if your going to eventually maybe make it a track monster, Go monoball/solid everything and avoid poly. If your plan is always a street toy, then poly is fine. Going from poly to mono's or solid bushings not only sucks but you cant help but to think you waisted more money than you thought you were saving. __________________ 2010 Summit white SS/RS, Manzo full exhaust w/2" primaries, Roto-Fab intake, FE4 conversion, JRI Coilovers built by Ult_Performance w/hypercoils, BMR sway, BMR trailing arms, UMI toe links, solid sub-frame bushings, upper control arm bushings, radius inserts, caster locks, Taylor wires, BTR spec'd cam, tuned by ECS, various little lighting mods, ebay SLP splitter, Heritage grille, ZL1 rockers, Apex 19x11 w/RE-71r's 305/30/19, eaton tru-trac 2007 2500HD Duramax, Built trans, custom tuned beast

05-14-2021, 03:29 PM	#4
CamaroCracka Drives: 2010 Turbo LS3 Join Date: Dec 2009 Location: Palm Bay, FL Posts: 2,729	Pretty much agree with Orange. Cradle bushings, FE4 conversion, springs and shocks, front bar. The 1LE uses the same springs as the SS so if you have to scrimp somewhere in the short run, you could just go with stock springs and 1LE shocks or Bilstein's. Justice Pete suggests the 32mm rear bar for 1LEs, so if you with go with a 27mm front, 32mm rear and monotube shocks like the 1LE, that is what you would have. I went from a 2010 suspension to poly cradle bushings and FE4 with a ZL1 front bar and 1LE rear bar. The change was very obvious. Then I went Z28 shocks and springs and that was just as obvious an improvement although too harsh for some. I just replaced the poly's with solid bushings just because I can't leave things alone. The poly's will find a home in the vert this summer. The radius arm inserts are a pretty cheap upgrade and the Z28 uses them. I put them in on the first build. It's and easy upgrade. The toe rods, trailing arms, rear UCA, etc. are more for drag racing. I have them too, but I drag race the car too. I would include them eventually, but not necessarily on the first pass if you don't drag race. __________________ 2010 SS - On3 kit with downpipe cutout, CTR 78/80, CompCam 239/251 620/632 122+4, E85, Z28 suspension and ZL1 diff with Outlaw axles. Gen6 ZL1/1LE brakes. 2011 Vert - 416/w 230/236 .612/.602 115lsa, 1LE suspension w/32mm rear bar. Z28 diff. ZL1 brakes.

05-15-2021, 07:24 AM	#9
Avenging Orange Drives: 2010 Inferno Orange 2SS/RS Join Date: Apr 2010 Location: Clermont, IN Posts: 3,297	There will be some who say coilovers and call it a day. There are so many options. If you read Pete's article closely, you'll see there are really only a few true weak points. You will also see the front sway upgrade is not really needed. As with many a vehicles built on this platform...it is the rear suspension (namely cradle and diff bushes...and the rear sway upgrade) that really needs to be addressed. Then the front radius rod bushing. Then likely springs w/shocks & struts. Fyi, I'm just speaking in terms of the simplest of upgrades that should easily address your style of driving (Just my opinion). I have never owed a car with coilovers (rode and driven a few), but never had one long enough to give a thorough impression. Just bear in mind, you can read too deep into suspension upgrades and end up with something that becomes unbrearable to drive...so tread lightly and start slow. __________________ 2010 Inferno Orange 2SS/RS M6 Black Leather, Sun Roof, OBX Headers, Borla touring axle back, Cold Air Inductions CAI , non synthetic fluids, BMR total bushing upgrade/1" lowering springs, DSE 32mm rear sway bar. GM fe4 shocks/struts/LCA's, AAM 3.91 diff, Vertini RFS1.8 20x9 +30. Conti ExtremeContact Sport 275/35/20. sjm autoprod ABL dash kit. Mike Norris tuned 413/419. Avenging Orange: 43 years of not buying into the Hype........and damn proud of it!! https://youtu.be/9JD9it6SmB8 https://youtu.be/xmelTlEzI34 KICKING CANCERS ASS SINCE 2015!!

05-14-2021, 04:35 PM	#5
Rainbow1616 Drives: 2011 Inferno Orange Camaro 2SS/RS Join Date: Nov 2011 Location: Pittsburgh, PA Posts: 1,368	Thank you for the great info. I would like to go to the track a little more but its just for pure enjoyment. I have no visions of being competitive, those days have passed lol I do not plan to drag at all. I am happy with the power it produces with headers, exhaust , intake, throttle body etc. I have no desire to take that to the next step. I just want the steering and handling to be much better. I know when I step on it the rear end has a mind of its own even in a straight line. It sounded like sway bars would be the easiest upgrade but if you experts say cradle bushings first then I guess I can tackle that. Looking at Cradle bushings alone though there are many choices? I only want to do it once so if you say solid that's fine. I can afford more but getting it past the wife is the biggest hurdle. Yea I know that's sad. So any solid aluminum cradle bushings?

05-14-2021, 06:51 PM	#7
Rainbow1616 Drives: 2011 Inferno Orange Camaro 2SS/RS Join Date: Nov 2011 Location: Pittsburgh, PA Posts: 1,368	It looks like Pegasus is no longer in business. Would aFE solid bushings be a good choice? Or Hendrix?

05-20-2021, 10:31 AM	#11
Rainbow1616 Drives: 2011 Inferno Orange Camaro 2SS/RS Join Date: Nov 2011 Location: Pittsburgh, PA Posts: 1,368	Ok, I decided to start with the Cradle Bushings. I am confident I will continue to just use this car for fun with an occasional track trip. So now the question is should I go poly bushings or solid? How does each affect ride quality? I only want to do it once and I don't mind the price tag of either one. So solid or poly?

05-20-2021, 11:33 AM	#14
Rainbow1616 Drives: 2011 Inferno Orange Camaro 2SS/RS Join Date: Nov 2011 Location: Pittsburgh, PA Posts: 1,368	I’ve tried a few different tires. I’m currently on the Firestone Firehawk Indy 500s. They seem to handle well but it’s hard to tell with the rear end issues. I’ll never run all seasons. Even when I drove it all year round I had dedicated snow tires. Should I just install solid and never look back? I will probably keep this car then pass it down to my son at some point. I don’t plan on getting rid of it.