2012 Camaro ZL1 Price Announced at $54,095 MSRP !

[HumanWiki]

Originally Posted by Shurenuff

So what would drag racing with an auto tranny be like, preschool?

J/K

May as well put electronic controls on the steering and just let the computer race the car w/o a driver. But, then where's the fun?

[GoldenBear]

Originally Posted by ramairjohn2000

proof is the nurenberg ring times...... if youve done any road racing or scca stuff you know that this is truly the peak of performance evaluztions imo.....
no offense to anyone but drag racing is like kindergarten compared to track racing, imo having done both.

I think that a good road course provides a much better test of overall vehicle performance than a drag race does. A drag race is very one dimensional compared to a road course where handling, cornering, braking, and acceleration are all put to the test. A good time on a challenging road course is an indication that a vehicle can efficiently put its power from its wheels to the road.

[tooslow]

Originally Posted by ramairjohn2000

proof is the nurenberg ring times...... if youve done any road racing or scca stuff you know that this is truly the peak of performance evaluztions imo.....
no offense to anyone but drag racing is like kindergarten compared to track racing, imo having done both.

Originally Posted by GoldenBear

I think that a good road course provides a much better test of overall vehicle performance than a drag race does. A drag race is very one dimensional compared to a road course where handling, cornering, braking, and acceleration are all put to the test. A good time on a challenging road course is an indication that a vehicle can efficiently put its power from its wheels to the road.

I get that, but I was referencing the two cars from a drag racing perspective only. Whether or not you believe it is the appropriate place for the ZL1 to be as compared to another type of racing doesn't matter. You don't have to sell me on the merits/strengths of the ZL1, I am well aware of it's apparent capabilities. My question was, do we know if the ZL1 will be able to launch from a dead stop, considering all the available torque, any better than the previous GT500's? A great 'Ring times does nothing to help answer this question.

Thanks for reiterating for the upteenth time that the ZL1 seems to be better suited to a road course than a drag strip instead of contributing to the topic presented.:

BTW, I actually do and enjoy both forms of racing. I, however, am not going to suggest that folks who partake of drag racing are somehow less of a competitor than folks that road race.

[GoldenBear]

Originally Posted by tooslow

I get that, but I was referencing the two cars from a drag racing perspective only. Whether or not you believe it is the appropriate place for the ZL1 to be as compared to another type of racing doesn't matter. You don't have to sell me on the merits/strengths of the ZL1, I am well aware of it's apparent capabilities. My question was, do we know if the ZL1 will be able to launch from a dead stop, considering all the available torque, any better than the previous GT500's?

Are you referring to launching consistently by the typical amateur driver, or the best launch that can be achieved by a professional driver? Either way, those questions are probably best answered with the vehicles at the drag strip.

Originally Posted by tooslow

A great 'Ring times does nothing to help answer this question.

However, to acheive a great Nurburgring time, a vehicle must be able to efficiently gets its power to the road.

Originally Posted by tooslow

Thanks for reiterating for the upteenth time that the ZL1 seems to be better suited to a road course than a drag strip instead of contributing to the topic presented.:

My post that you quoted simply stated that I think that a good road course is a better venue for which to determine the overall performance of a vehicle than a drag race is. The post did not refer specifically the ZL1 or the venue to which its design is better suited.

However, if drag racing is one's thing, I suggest that one would do better to purchase a new COPO Camaro, which is designed from the factory specifically for drag racing, rather than to purchase a ZL1, since the ZL1 has a lot of technology, and, therefore, associated cost that is not related to, or optimized for, drag racing.

Originally Posted by tooslow

BTW, I actually do and enjoy both forms of racing. I, however, am not going to suggest that folks who partake of drag racing are somehow less of a competitor than folks that road race.

Who was comparing the level being of a competitor of those who drag race with those who road race? Is it "better" to be more or less of a competitor?

[tooslow]

Originally Posted by GoldenBear

Are you referring to launching consistently by the typical amateur driver, or the best launch that can be achieved by a professional driver? Either way, those questions are probably best answered with the vehicles at the drag strip.

I agree 100%! So why then are so many people on this board dead certain that the ZL1 is going to hook up from a dead stop at a drag strip better than the GT500, given a driver of equal experience with each vehicle? That's the question I'm asking. To date, there is zero evidence that it will.

Originally Posted by GoldenBear

However, to acheive a great Nurburgring time, a vehicle must be able to efficiently gets its power to the road.

Again, I get that. But as many will attest, it is much easier to hook when the vehicle is already in motion versus from a standing start. Why else would you start a 'Ring run from a roll versus from a dead stop?

Originally Posted by GoldenBear

My post that you quoted simply stated that I think that a good road course is a better venue for which to determine the overall performance of a vehicle than a drag race is. The post did not refer specifically the ZL1 or the venue to which its design is better suited.

Right, but why even state this answer to the question that was asked? I asked why people think the ZL1 will hook from a dead stop better than the GT500, not what venue offers the best evaluation of total performance. You took it upon yourself to state that opinion.

Originally Posted by GoldenBear

However, if drag racing is one's thing, I suggest that one would do better to purchase a new COPO Camaro, which is designed from the factory specifically for drag racing, rather than to purchase a ZL1, since the ZL1 has a lot of technology, and, therefore, associated cost that is not related to, or optimized for, drag racing.

You make it sound like the GT500 is, which is not the case. Like the concept COPO Camaro, Ford already makes a drag race specific, non street-legal vehicle specific to drag racing, the Mustang Cobra Jet.

Originally Posted by GoldenBear

Who was comparing the level being of a competitor of those who drag race with those who road race? Is it "better" to be more or less of a competitor?

If you will note, that was not directed toward anything you said.

[Wolve91]

First time poster! Have been reading all the great information here. You guys are a wealth of information, thanks!

Just wanted to add that I am/was interested in a ZL1. As a previous camaro owner, current Vette owner this car had a lot of appeal to me.

So I called my local dealer whom I have purchased 3 cars from already. Lets just say I will never ever buy another one from Van Chevrolet in Scottsdale, AZ. They stated they are getting 5 ZL1's and are pricing them at....

Are you ready......

Sit down.....

$20,0000 OVER MSRP!

Wow is all I can say, nothing like raping your customers.

[Blackhawk021]

Originally Posted by Wolve91

First time poster! Have been reading all the great information here. You guys are a wealth of information, thanks!

Just wanted to add that I am/was interested in a ZL1. As a previous camaro owner, current Vette owner this car had a lot of appeal to me.

So I called my local dealer whom I have purchased 3 cars from already. Lets just say I will never ever buy another one from Van Chevrolet in Scottsdale, AZ. They stated they are getting 5 ZL1's and are pricing them at....

Are you ready......

Sit down.....

$20,0000 OVER MSRP!

Wow is all I can say, nothing like raping your customers.

WOW, find another dealer, there are tons of them out there that are at MSRP.

[tooslow]

Originally Posted by Blackhawk021

WOW, find another dealer, there are tons of them out there that are at MSRP.

So everyone would have you to believe, but not necessarily the case. There are some but hardly "tons". As we get closer to actual production, I figure even fewer will be offered at MSRP. Just my opinion based on what has occurred with other niche cars over the past few years. One thing GM has going for it, however, the levels of disposable income people have these days is much less than what it was when the SRT's and GT500's first hit showrooms. Guess that's one advantage to being late to the game.

[GoldenBear]

Originally Posted by tooslow

I agree 100%! So why then are so many people on this board dead certain that the ZL1 is going to hook up from a dead stop at a drag strip better than the GT500, given a driver of equal experience with each vehicle? That's the question I'm asking. To date, there is zero evidence that it will.

I'm not sure how many are "dead certain" that the ZL1 will launch better than the current GT500, but those that do have that belief may be basing it on the widely accepted understanding that the current GT500 has some difficultly launching effectively, and on the fact the the ZL1 has launch control and the current GT500 does not.

Originally Posted by tooslow

Again, I get that. But as many will attest, it is much easier to hook when the vehicle is already in motion versus from a standing start. Why else would you start a 'Ring run from a roll versus from a dead stop?

I believe that, for whatever reason, the current standard for clocking Nurburgring lap times is with a rolling start. Regardless, the comparisons should be apples to apples comparisons, rolling start to rolling start, and standing start to standing start.

Originally Posted by tooslow

Right, but why even state this answer to the question that was asked? I asked why people think the ZL1 will hook from a dead stop better than the GT500, not what venue offers the best evaluation of total performance. You took it upon yourself to state that opinion.

My post was in direct response to RamAirJohn2000's post, not one of your posts.

Originally Posted by tooslow

You make it sound like the GT500 is, which is not the case. Like the concept COPO Camaro, Ford already makes a drag race specific, non street-legal vehicle specific to drag racing, the Mustang Cobra Jet.

How does a post that doesn't mention the GT500 characterize the GT500 as designed for drag racing? I was referring to the differences between the ZL1 and the COPO Camaro.

Originally Posted by tooslow

If you will note, that was not directed toward anything you said.

I don't think I indicated that it was. I just was asking who was comparing the competitive levels of drag racers and road racers.

[Blackhawk021]

Originally Posted by tooslow

So everyone would have you to believe, but not necessarily the case. There are some but hardly "tons". As we get closer to actual production, I figure even fewer will be offered at MSRP. Just my opinion based on what has occurred with other niche cars over the past few years. One thing GM has going for it, however, the levels of disposable income people have these days is much less than what it was when the SRT's and GT500's first hit showrooms. Guess that's one advantage to being late to the game.

another kind opinion from the "slow" lady...sorry, I guess "tons" wasn't the right word choice. I will try again for the "slow" people in the forum and try to be more specific.

WOW, find another dealer, there are quite possibly several out there that will respect MSRP and honor that price without marking up $20k. I only know this because there are TONS of members on this forum that have stated as fact that they have placed their order at MSRP...Good luck, hope you find one in your area!

[tmandoug1]

Originally Posted by Blackhawk021

another kind opinion from the "slow" lady...sorry, I guess "tons" wasn't the right word choice. I will try again for the "slow" people in the forum and try to be more specific.

WOW, find another dealer, there are quite possibly several out there that will respect MSRP and honor that price without marking up $20k. I only know this because there are TONS of members on this forum that have stated as fact that they have placed their order at MSRP...Good luck, hope you find one in your area!

Signed by dealer at MSRP, done deal.

[2010SS2SS]

Theres the price you wanna pay, the price you pay and then theres the price you tell your friends you paid!

[NYCSRTATE]

Considering Jeep is asking $64k + tax for there SRT8 and $55k + tax for there 300 SRT8 this ZL1 at MSRP may be the deal of a lifetime!

BTW Jeep has lost there fu*king minds $64k for a Jeep get a grip.

Dont get me started on Chrysler, damn company is begging to fail again.

Now the quest begins to find a dealer in the north east to get a ZL1 at MSRP or invoice. I may have to do what ive done with most of my other vehicles, buy them from the mid west seems there are more respectable dealers there.

[OldScoolCamaro]

Originally Posted by Shurenuff

So what would drag racing with an auto tranny be like, preschool?

J/K

Now THAT"S funny....