What if there never is a top fix?

[Overflow]

Originally Posted by Clustergear

I been reading this post and I am going to put my two cents in about the Camaro being a cheap car. I have the rub marks in my top and the dealer has address them, I have also done all the mods about the top in the convertible forum. So far I happy and problem hasn't gotten worst. But the post about the Camaro being a cheap convertible and if want a car with no top marks get a BMW or Lexus convertible. Well I own both the Camaro and 2011 BMW convertible. I'll take the Camaro hands down any time. The BMW has nothing over the Camaro. The wife got the top gammed half way down in a parking lot this summer. BMW wanted to send a flat bed and tow it 40 miles on interstate. I bet the top would be all the way down by the time it got back to dealership, 40 miles at 70 mph. I called service department and asked how to release top or gain entry into trunk. They knew nothing and were going to check for me. Hooked up a trailer and when to pick up wife and car. By the time I got there wife had figured out how to get into trunk. There is a release in car. I was able to get a towel out that had gammed top. Next day dealer call back and asked about the car, I told the wife figured out how to get into trunk and I had fix it.. The BMW just looks like another couple, not like a convertible.

That is one might fine vert there, sir.

[coolman]

Originally Posted by Nutbutt

I realize there is a lot of bitching going on here but If you we're to read the entire posting as most people. You would learn a lot about the camaro convertible and what to look for if you would ever chose to go with a convertible. I for one have gathered much from this thread that I have shared with both the trim shop and dealership preventing them from implementing outdated TSBs that were out there. This info wasn't available when I had my top replaced if it were things would have been different. I hope my trials and tribulations help other vert owners make good decisions in their repair.
And if I were you and had, let's say a gas problem, I would educate myself to get it fixed correctly and not necessarily rely on the guy fixing it.

That's all well and good that you came up with a solution ,but the fact remains that you should have never needed too.


As to the op's question, I think they will fix it for future cars sooner or later if they plan on building convertibles for awhile ,but this won't help the ones already out there. I believe the band-aid repairs that they've been doing will still happen.

The only real way to get them to do anything would be for the dealers to band together and stop selling them until there's either a fix or they stop making them. Either way it would be a win for consumers because an inferior product wouldn't be push on us. (Sad thing about this is that there are too many slime ball dealer that only care about the sale so it would never happen.)

We're so use to getting inferior crap from china that we seem to put up with any garbage that comes our way.

[95birdible]

Look at this page and tell me that us Vert owners aren't being slammed by our hardtop brothers and sisters. Just sad.
http://www.camaro5.com/forums/showth...10#post4232510

[coolman]

Originally Posted by Clustergear

I been reading this post and I am going to put my two cents in about the Camaro being a cheap car. I have the rub marks in my top and the dealer has address them, I have also done all the mods about the top in the convertible forum. So far I happy and problem hasn't gotten worst. But the post about the Camaro being a cheap convertible and if want a car with no top marks get a BMW or Lexus convertible. Well I own both the Camaro and 2011 BMW convertible. I'll take the Camaro hands down any time. The BMW has nothing over the Camaro. The wife got the top jammed half way down in a parking lot this summer. BMW wanted to send a flat bed and tow it 40 miles on interstate. I bet the top would be all the way down by the time it got back to dealership, 40 miles at 70 mph. I called service department and asked how to release top or gain entry into trunk. They knew nothing and were going to check for me. Hooked up a trailer and when to pick up wife and car. By the time I got there wife had figured out how to get into trunk. There is a release in car. I was able to get a towel out that had jammed top. Next day dealer call back and asked about the car, I told the wife figured out how to get into trunk and I had fix it.. The BMW just looks like another couple, not like a convertible.

Nice story ,but it wasn't the cars fault that your wife had something in the way of the top working properly. I guess I don't see your point. My BMW hard top convertible works flawlessly. I also love the fact that it still looks like a coupe with the top up.

[Clustergear]

Originally Posted by coolman

Nice story ,but it wasn't the cars fault that your wife had something in the way of the top working properly. I guess I don't see your point. My BMW hard top convertible works flawlessly. I also love the fact that it still looks like a coupe with the top up.

OK my point is that when I called dealer about getting in trunk. The BMW dealer's service Mgr and the techs he asked seem to be as clueless about convertible top problems as some of the Chevy dealers I have been reading about.

As for the wife shouldn't be driving a convertible. She paid for it so she can do what she whats with it.

Yes the top doesn't go down if tray is not in place. She went shopping and of course stuffed the trunk and towel when up side of tray. You all should know its not worth arguing with the wife, As you can't win. Its easier to just fix it and let her go on her way.

[The IOM Ninja]

Originally Posted by Clustergear

You all should know its not worth arguing with the wife, As you can't win. Its easier to just fix it and let her go on her way.

Truer words were never said, women huh, they're right even when they're wrong

[Lee123]

Originally Posted by Clustergear

OK my point is that when I called dealer about getting in trunk. The BMW dealer's service Mgr and the techs he asked seem to be as clueless about convertible top problems as some of the Chevy dealers I have been reading about.

They are clueless about many things and assistance from BMW on the east coast seems to be required for even the simplest repair. My last car was a 135 convertible. The radio needed to be replaced due to a bad display. It took 3 days because they had trouble "programming the car to work with the new radio." From what I was told, the dealer here hooked the car up to the machine and the actual programming was done by people in New York who left at 2pm our time.

On the other hand, the top on the 135 looked new when I traded it on the Camaro and it had been up and down a lot. It had also been through the no-touch car wash several times without leaking a drop. Although I've had no trouble with the top on my Camaro yet, it scares the crap out of me to read about all the problems. I haven't been putting the top down as much as I did with the 135 because I don't want to end up with it broken before they come up with a long term fix.

[monstertodd]

With everything that I've read about the convertible problems, I have to ask one question:

Where is the aftermarket?

Why aren't savvy entrepreneurs stepping up with an aftermarket fix for the convertible tops? I understand that this is something GM needs to fix, but in the interim, where is the aftermarket?

[Lightrider]

I really don't see a fix coming for these tops as they're currently designed. I'm not a mechanical engineer, not even close...but the way the top folds and the mechanism closes I can't figure out how to not get the rub/pinch mark without a very different set-up.

I personally think some marks are worse than others based on how far into the well the top compresses. Like all things, this must have certain tolerances and if the top closes to the deepest limit on some cars (compresses tighter) than others at the lowest limit of closure, the tops closing the deepest could have the most compression and potentially more rub marks.

Though I hope I'm wrong (if you ask my wife its a regular occurrence) but in all honesty I do not believe there is a 'permanent fix' coming with this current top design.

[Lee123]

Originally Posted by Lightrider

I really don't see a fix coming for these tops as they're currently designed. I'm not a mechanical engineer, not even close...but the way the top folds and the mechanism closes I can't figure out how to not get the rub/pinch mark without a very different set-up.

I personally think some marks are worse than others based on how far into the well the top compresses. Like all things, this must have certain tolerances and if the top closes to the deepest limit on some cars (compresses tighter) than others at the lowest limit of closure, the tops closing the deepest could have the most compression and potentially more rub marks.

Though I hope I'm wrong (if you ask my wife its a regular occurrence) but in all honesty I do not believe there is a 'permanent fix' coming with this current top design.

I hate to say this because I'm really happy with my car, but if GM can't design a top that works maybe they need to pay another company to help them with it. I don't have a lot good to say about BMW (I traded mine after a year, not due to the car but due to the company) but the top on my 135 folded up in a similar area of the trunk and no one had trouble with those. It even had a hard cover that opened to allow the top in and out of the trunk, and closed to look like the tonneau cover on the Camaro all by itself. As far as I know Mustang convertibles have no problems with the top. Why in the world can't they buy a Mustang and copy the top mechanism? (Just don't copy the clutch.)

This can't be that complex of a problem. I just hope they put the effort into it to develop a solution that can be applied to the cars that are already in service, not just the 2013's.

[cam62]

Originally Posted by 95birdible

Look at this page and tell me that us Vert owners aren't being slammed by our hardtop brothers and sisters. Just sad.
http://www.camaro5.com/forums/showth...10#post4232510

It's pointless to waste our time with them. They don't understand and I guess never will.

And that fake press relaease.. wow.. someone spent a fair amount of time to poke fun at our plight. If I had that kind of time I'd poke fun at those guys complaining about their engines running out of oil and blowing up.

1. It's more than a handful of people experiencing top problems.
2. Legal process doesn't necessarily mean class action law suit. Lemon law process is a legal process also.
3. We aren't clamoring for a fix to be designed here on Camaro5, GM will do that in engineering division, but by staying vocal here we are alerting others to be aware before they purchase.
4. We simply want our brand new car tops to wear normally. Not break and have holes in the first few thousand miiles.


It's interesting that FBODFATHER can get all involved in the discussion to discontinue IBM, which was a business decision that affected people who don't even own camaros, but yet strangely silent on this issue which afffects existing AND potential camaro owners.

I know that anyone who asks me about my car, they hear more about the top problems than about how much I love the car and it's performance.


Back to the thread topic.

If they never fix the top problems, I hope they wil find a way to l make it right for us.

[coolman]

Originally Posted by Clustergear

OK my point is that when I called dealer about getting in trunk. The BMW dealer's service Mgr and the techs he asked seem to be as clueless about convertible top problems as some of the Chevy dealers I have been reading about.

As for the wife shouldn't be driving a convertible. She paid for it so she can do what she whats with it.

Yes the top doesn't go down if tray is not in place. She went shopping and of course stuffed the trunk and towel when up side of tray. You all should know its not worth arguing with the wife, As you can't win. Its easier to just fix it and let her go on her way.

Who said anything about your wife and what she should or should not be driving?

I now understand what you were driving at though. Thanks for clarifying.

[95birdible]

Or how Scott can toot the horn of the yet to be released ZL1. They have to be quiet. One wrong word opens them up to liability. The wrong thing said like there will be a complete fix or recall and doesn't happen would really open up a can of worms. I know my dealership is pissed cause they have 2 SS verts new on the lot with bad tops and no fix. So now the dealer has to sell a broken car or eat the 90 grand. I would be livid. My Chevy rep is mum also and just wants to get it fixed. I ask what is engineering doing and she says I don't know. Hello you are the same company call and ask. She said they can't. Why? It's all a big hush hush coverup. If all of us banded together enmass and drove to Detroit I am sure we could get press.
I'm not going to stand by and be passive anymore. I am going to get us a fix for our tops. Mark my word.

[Nutbutt]

The problem isn't just one thing. The whole system, top, mechanical frame, and water management material, are all not right. They will have to work on a system fix. No band aids as they have been doing.
All I want to know is that they are working on a total system fix. I'm not looking for a press release or recall notice to the world. I'm just looking for a GM rep to say this is a complicated issue but our engineering dept is working on a fix for your car. No admissions of mass failures or anything close. Them going public is of no value to me.
I really love this car and have sunk quite a bit of time and money to make it mine! Just fix it !