New photos: Camaro Z28 Testing Against GT500

[Sax1031]

Originally Posted by besherman

A few points/questions:

1. I assume that GM's target is the 2011 GT 500--not the 2010. Also, I hope they are benchmarking the GT500 as equipped with the performance package (whatever Ford calls it). Is anyone familiar enough with the GT500 to be able to tell which model year is shown in the photos and whether it has the performance package?

2.GM needs to assume that Ford will increase the GT500's HP before or shortly after the Z28 is released. A HP war in inevitable (and wonderful) BUT GM needs to make sure that the LSA in the Z28 can handle upgrades (forged pistons?).

3. Regarding handling, GM should not focus on maximum grip; instead they should focus on maximum FUN. No one really cares (or should care) about a skidpad number. People want the Z28 to be fun and thrilling to drive.

4. GM must make sure that the Z28 convertible is stiff and rigid and not a quivering mess like the Mustang convertible. Just equaling the Mustang on this criterion would mean failure. The Camaro convertible must be clearly superior in structural rigidity.

Bruce

It is a 2011 GT500 with the SVT performance package.

I agree on the Forged Pistons.

[Supercamaro64]

im so freakin excited for this!!! not that ill be able to afford one, i just want a top-dog camaro to go against the gt500. WOOT!!!

[radz28]

Originally Posted by motorhead

Yes that's the SVT packaged car. Look at the stripes smaller and closer together
means SVT package. Some guys do stripe delete because they want SVT but don't like the new stripes.

AH! Thanks. I didn't know those points

Originally Posted by 81z28355

The front brakes appear to be the CTS-V brakes?

How much to you think it weighs? 4,000 or more?

Do you think GM will price it below a Corvette and have it outhandle and out accelerate a Corvette? The 2011 GT500 with the SVT suspension as the pictured car has will indeed run with a base Vette. for me is doesn't matter I have kids and can't consider a Corvette. But if I just paid 60k for my new Grand Sport and a 50k Camaro beat me up at the track I would be pissed.

I think it could step on the base 'Vettes toes - it'd be nice to give GS a run for it's money, but as much as I'd like to see it nip at Z06, I really doubt it. I'd love to be suprised though. It stinks for people like you that have already put that money down, but I'm sure you knew there were faster cars out there. Still - there's a fair amount of details Z28 would have to overcome for a GS owner to get too worried

Originally Posted by Doc

The last 3 letters on that side badge look like it says ASC... Automatic Super Charged maybe? These might be test model designators rather than production badges.

I like the fact that these pictures show the testing is on a road course rather than 1/4 mile which pretty much says this is a Z/28 prototype.

If they can bring this thing in at $39,995 base price it will be killer.

If they bring the price that low for a LSA'd Z28 with great handling I'll eat a GT500

Originally Posted by 8cd03gro

I hope that's a 2011 GT500 and not a 2010. . . would be somewhat counterproductive to test against the 2010. This is great. I love the idea of two monstrous muscle cars taking on the world. I've said it before in previous threads, but I see this little duo ending in a "gentlemen's agreement" similar to what happened between subaru/nissan/mitsu in japan years ago. Both the blown ls3 (or lsa, depending on which route they choose) and the 5.4 (especially the 5.4) have limits that are way above safe power for the average consumer and it is far too easy for GM and Ford to keep bumping power back and forth to top each other. At the same time, I would love to see 700hp production mustangs and camaros. It would just lead to too many deaths.

How much is too much? I know where I'd like to get but even that's probably too much for most people. Shoot - most people can't drive SUVs responsibly, let alone a 426 horse' SS or 550 horse' GT500. To think these numbers can get closer to 600 in the next couple years just amazes me. There are enough nannies on these cars to keep them relatively safe, so I'm not too worried. I know that I won't be turning the traction control off every time I get in the car like I used to in my '02, lol!

Originally Posted by Sax1031

It is a 2011. GM would not test the car against the 2010. It has the SVT performance package also.

I hope everyone is right. I'm sure GM's not foolish, though

[motorhead]

Originally Posted by radz28

AH! Thanks. I didn't know those points

Wow! I commend you for reading posts that far back. I didn't think anyone did that.

[Vega]

LOL
READ PEOPLE! REEEAAAADDDDDDD!!!
Lemme just get it out of your system now
"what year is that GT500?"
"is that a 2010 Mustang?"
"That looks like a 2011 right?"
"GM SHOULD test against a 2011"
"is that an SVT?"

XD
mkay are we all good now?
2011 GT500 w/ SVT performance package, lets get over the hump now lmao

[radz28]

Originally Posted by besherman

A few points/questions:

1. I assume that GM's target is the 2011 GT 500--not the 2010. Also, I hope they are benchmarking the GT500 as equipped with the performance package (whatever Ford calls it). Is anyone familiar enough with the GT500 to be able to tell which model year is shown in the photos and whether it has the performance package?

2.GM needs to assume that Ford will increase the GT500's HP before or shortly after the Z28 is released. A HP war in inevitable (and wonderful) BUT GM needs to make sure that the LSA in the Z28 can handle upgrades (forged pistons?).

3. Regarding handling, GM should not focus on maximum grip; instead they should focus on maximum FUN. No one really cares (or should care) about a skidpad number. People want the Z28 to be fun and thrilling to drive.

4. GM must make sure that the Z28 convertible is stiff and rigid and not a quivering mess like the Mustang convertible. Just equaling the Mustang on this criterion would mean failure. The Camaro convertible must be clearly superior in structural rigidity.

Bruce

On almost all of your points

I've been saying all along I hope they benchmark the GT500, because I can only see that thing increase in power and performance. I'm not sure how much better, if any, the handling can improve, but I never thought Ford could do so well the the SRA, so what do I know, lol? I believe too many people are discounting the whole non-forged pistons-thing in LSA, but I really think there's more potential than many people give credit for. I won't argue it matches the GT500 in potential, but if people like Uncle Robin has had as good a luck with his LSA and power, I think most people will be pretty happy.

I DO think skidpad numbers and all the other empiricals are important selling points. Why did Ford fire back with a better tune for their new diesels after GM announced their diesel numbers? I don't know if there are cross-shoppers in this specific market, but the better numbers, the better sales, IMVHO. It ABSOLUTELY should be fun to drive though, without a doubt

It seems like GM's already started with a great foundation for the coupe on the ZETA II chassis, however, chopping the top off will have it's consequences... I'm sure they'll give it it's due attention though.

Originally Posted by Sax1031

It is a 2011 GT500 with the SVT performance package.

I agree on the Forged Pistons.

and rods

Originally Posted by Supercamaro64

im so freakin excited for this!!! not that ill be able to afford one, i just want a top-dog camaro to go against the gt500. WOOT!!!

[eric n]

This chevy is going to be a REMARKABLE CAR. Bet the house on it. Ford will then try to raise the bar as well. Either way we the consumers win. I assume the Camaro will be superior the first year or two. Should be interesting.

[Sax1031]

Originally Posted by eric n

This chevy is going to be a REMARKABLE CAR. Bet the house on it. Ford will then try to raise the bar as well. Either way we the consumers win. I assume the Camaro will be superior the first year or two. Should be interesting.

I see the Z28 being superior the first year. And Ford answering the year after.

[radz28]

Originally Posted by motorhead

Wow! I commend you for reading posts that far back. I didn't think anyone did that.

I try. I usually don't miss much Z28 news

Originally Posted by Vega

LOL
READ PEOPLE! REEEAAAADDDDDDD!!!
Lemme just get it out of your system now
"what year is that GT500?"
"is that a 2010 Mustang?"
"That looks like a 2011 right?"
"GM SHOULD test against a 2011"
"is that an SVT?"

XD
mkay are we all good now?
2011 GT500 w/ SVT performance package, lets get over the hump now lmao

Crystal clear here!

Does it have the Track Pack?... j/k

[radz28]

Originally Posted by Sax1031

I see the Z28 being superior the first year. And Ford answering the year after.

And back and forth and back and forth

[Vega]

Im curious to see how the IRS makes a difference against the SRA, Ford guys go on and on about how the GT500 is better than the SS and has that solid axle, im anxious to see what handling differences the IRS makes when the solid axle is put against a comparitivly performance based car rather than a lower model

...oh and LOL! to Radz28 XD

[OldJedi]

Tran, Thanks for posting all of these great shots! What do you guys think of the lower brake line being exposed in the close up of the front wheel? I do not remember seeing a brake line being exposed like this before, usually they are mounted to the inside half of the caliper. I know it is still early and this is still just a prototype, it just seemed strange to me.

[8cd03gro]

Originally Posted by Sax1031

I see the Z28 being superior the first year. And Ford answering the year after.

This is exactly what I was talking about. I'm assuming the camaro will handle and stop like a dream, just like the gt500. The easiest and most noticeable changes will be in the power department. When all it takes is a pulley and tune to pick up 100+ hp, these are dangerous waters. While the gt500's 5.4 has a higher power potential (short block wise) than pretty much anything anyone has to offer, those limits are way beyond what I feel will ever be offered to the public. There has to be a cap at some point. I just can't see these cars making over 700hp in stock form and if the lsa is beefed up a bit, both parties will be easily capable. 700 at the crank is CHUMP CHANGE for the 5.4 and an LSA with a beefier rotating assembly would be exactly the same way. I get excited just talking about this, but it depresses me because my lowly sti is going to be the slowest thing on the road

Originally Posted by Vega

Im curious to see how the IRS makes a difference against the SRA, Ford guys go on and on about how the GT500 is better than the SS and has that solid axle, im anxious to see what handling differences the IRS makes when the solid axle is put against a comparitivly performance based car rather than a lower model

...oh and LOL! to Radz28 XD

The 2011 gt500 already handles comparatively to the ls3 vette. I would expect the z28 to handle just as well, maybe slightly better, but in this price range there's not much you can do to get handling much better.

[Revo1]

Awesome! Getting excited!!