ZL1 Value

[radz28]

Originally Posted by GoldenBear

Another way to look at the new ZL1 value is if we assume that a nicely equipped ZL1 will have a MSRP of about $55K, then the new ZL1 would have a price in 1969 dollars of $9,141.

For comparison here are some 1969 prices:

Base Camaro: -------------- $2,727
Camaro SS396 (L78) Conv: - $4,428
Shelby GT500 Fastback: ---- $5,565
Cadillac Eldorado: ---------- $6,711
9560 COPO Camaro (ZL1): -- $7,200
Ferrari 365 GTB/4: ---------$19,000

When you start looking over those numbers, it's easier, IMVHO, to justify what we expect the price to be. This car is LOADED with technology; moreso, IMO, than the original. It's not only about the engine - it's about thw package.

[DGthe3]

Originally Posted by radz28

GREAT point. You know you've got something going on when the engine option is about as much as the car itself...

Yeah, those engines were not cheap. When I was doing that background research on pricing/inflation, I found that the engine option itself would have cost about $25,000 today

[radz28]

Originally Posted by DGthe3

Yeah, those engines were not cheap. When I was doing that background research on pricing/inflation, I found that the engine option itself would have cost about $25,000 today

I guess they are the LS9s of today, lol.

[fbodfather]

Originally Posted by GoldenBear

I'm going to to purchase a 2012 ZL1. In fact, I've been wanting to purchase a high performance 5th Gen Camaro since the 2006 Detroit Auto Show. I've just been waiting for Chevrolet to produce the right 5th Gen Camaro for me, and the ZL1 is the right Camaro for me. However, at $50,000 or more, I began thinking a little bit about the value compared to the the value Chevrolet produced in the late 1960's.

My 1969 Z28, purchased from Guardian Chevrolet in Brea, CA, in June of 1969, sold with a MSRP of $4,168.75, which would be (according to the current CPI numbers, and I know that the government CPI is lower than actual real world inflation) $25,083.46 in 2011 dollars.

I may be living in the past, but a ~$50K ZL1 price is about two times the price of my 1969 Z28 in real dollars. I realize that the ZL1, with 40 plus years of technological improvements, is a considerably better and more technologically advanced car than my 1969 Z28, but still, twice the price is a hefty premium to pay.

I liked the idea that in the mid to late 60's the average muscle car aficionado could walk into a Chevy dealer and check the right RPO boxes and order the car of one's dreams without having to spend a king's ransom. IMHO, that was one of the great things about Chevrolet muscle in the 60's, it was affordable. Whereas, today it seems that to be able to afford the type of performance that was available to the average income earner in the 60's, one has to be relatively well off.

Maybe I'm just being nostalgic, and don't get me wrong, I think it's great that Chevrolet is offering a Camaro as impressive as the ZL1 is today. I'd just like to see the performance it offers be as affordable today as it was in the 60's so those of us who love Chevrolet performance are able to experience the exhilaration available today just as easily as we were able to experience it then. I love to see Chevrolet muscle on the road.

I do understand the differences between the costs of automobile manufacturing today and in the 1960's, and I am just dreaming here, but it's always fun to dream.

Delighted to hear that you're loving the ZL1.

A couple of thoughts:

>We (that's you AND me...) tend to look at this from 1969 - and the truth is that 1969 is long gone - it's not going to come back and the world has changed - drastically.

>CAFE standards will price V8s out of the entry market. Do we as a manufacturer like that? No - but it's legislated.....

>You're right about the affordability of your 1969 Z28 - but let's compare the standard equipment on both cars - and adjust so that we can compare apples to apples.........and you suddenly see that the spread suddenly all but disappears....

Now let's talk about things like 'driveability' and fuel economy and maintenance costs. (how many miles did we get out of those Goodyear Custom Polyglas tires anyway???) How 'bout oil changes and plug changes and all of that stuff................and then let's talk about safety.........

...............and the fact that you can do anything that your 1969 Camaro did with our 6.2 engines - the L99 or the LS3 in stock form - but you can do it with the air conditioning on and the premium sound system blaring .......
See- the "Good Old Days" suddenly lose some of their luster..........and You're not the only one that looks back and sometimes wishes we could go back - I do it all the time because I remember what our showrooms looked like in the 60s and what the lot looked like with all of those 'new' 1st gen Camaros and Chevelle SS-396s and Big-block Impala SSs and Caprices.....

The golden age of performance is really today - and this will be borne out when we look back 20 years from now............

Meanwhile - prepare for "Perma-Grin!"

.....and thanks for your enthusiasm - I think you're gonna be blown away by the new ZL1....

[fbodfather]

I'll share a couple of our showroom pics - -the first is from early spring of 1963 when the new showroom opened to the public........this was a special display built by 'Chevrolet Creative Services' - and dealers could rent a 'travelling Chevy Show" for special occasions. I remember this one like it was last week. (that's my lil brother in the foreground....) The Sting Ray would rise up -the doors would open on their own - then close - and the body would drop onto the chassis - then the headlamps would rotate open - and then it would start all over again......

Some amazing times back then.........and some wonderful memories.........

[fbodfather]

Early 1971 - note the 1971 Camaro - the 71 El Camino, and a couple of 71 Impalas/Caprices - the Monte Carlo in the foreground is a 1970 left-over....





Here's a 348 cu. in. 1959 Impala Convertible on New Car Announcement day - would have been late September or early October of 1958........ this was one hot car ---

[fbodfather]

Originally Posted by GoldenBear

Another way to look at the new ZL1 value is if we assume that a nicely equipped ZL1 will have a MSRP of about $55K, then the new ZL1 would have a price in 1969 dollars of $9,141.

For comparison here are some 1969 prices:

Base Camaro: -------------- $2,727
Camaro SS396 (L78) Conv: - $4,428
Shelby GT500 Fastback: ---- $5,565
Cadillac Eldorado: ---------- $6,711
9560 COPO Camaro (ZL1): -- $7,200
Ferrari 365 GTB/4: ---------$19,000

There ya go confusing me with FACTS!!!!

Very good point!!!

[Blade]

Scott.......if you price this car at around $45,000.........you are gonna make me think real hard about trading my V6 with Longtubes, Injen Intake, MRT V2.0 Exhaust, Trifecta Tune and Detroit Speed Suspension in for this ride

[fbodfather]

Originally Posted by Blade

Scott.......if you price this car at around $45,000.........you are gonna make me think real hard about trading my V6 with Longtubes, Injen Intake, MRT V2.0 Exhaust, Trifecta Tune and Detroit Speed Suspension in for this ride

Heeheehee!!!!




--And if I looked like Billy Joel......

................. and sang like Billy Joel............

........................and had Billy Joel's money.........

................and I wasn't chinese.............(which I'm not, by the way...)

.................. I could'a perhaps been "best friends" with Christie Brinkley!


(.......and would have died a happy man........)


Over a 3rd of the car is re-engineered.

We have not 'spilled the beans' on everything we've done.

$45K?

You can order one for that price at www.ain'tgonnahappen.com.....

I'm only posting this - not to belittle anyone. - but to stop people from expecting the impossible......


By the way - delivered a new 3rd gen and a new 4th gen Camaro convert. to Billy Joel..........


And for the record? When I sing? I sound JUST LIKE Connie Francis!!!

.
.
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[radz28]

Originally Posted by fbodfather

Heeheehee!!!!




--And if I looked like Billy Joel......

................. and sang like Billy Joel............

........................and had Billy Joel's money.........

................and I wasn't chinese.............(which I'm not, by the way...)

.................. I could'a perhaps been "best friends" with Christie Brinkley!


(.......and would have died a happy man........)


Over a 3rd of the car is re-engineered.

We have not 'spilled the beans' on everything we've done.

$45K?

You can order one for that price at www.ain'tgonnahappen.com.....

I'm only posting this - not to belittle anyone. - but to stop people from expecting the impossible......


By the way - delivered a new 3rd gen and a new 4th gen Camaro convert. to Billy Joel..........


And for the record? When I sing? I sound JUST LIKE Connie Francis!!!

.
.
.

The wait's killing us

[f5journal]

Good points and info FBOD. It is quite easy to gloss over and forget the days of constantly tuning, changing spark plugs, playing with advance curve, valve lash and jetting on a stock Z-28 or 396 that had a general engine life expectancy of 75,000-80,000 miles or less...and as you say, all done with no A/C generally and the optional AM/FM radio.

I did have some sort of FM converter thingy that you tuned your radio to a certain station with.

[OldJedi]

Originally Posted by fbodfather

I'll share a couple of our showroom pics - -the first is from early spring of 1963 when the new showroom opened to the public........this was a special display built by 'Chevrolet Creative Services' - and dealers could rent a 'travelling Chevy Show" for special occasions. I remember this one like it was last week. (that's my lil brother in the foreground....) The Sting Ray would rise up -the doors would open on their own - then close - and the body would drop onto the chassis - then the headlamps would rotate open - and then it would start all over again......

Some amazing times back then.........and some wonderful memories.........

Scott I was 13 when I saw my first 63 Vette and fell in love with the coolest car on four wheels. I ultimately purchased numerous Corvettes over my many years and finally settled down with the Marina Blue 67 Vette pictured above. She is loud, unsophisticated and a ton of fun to drive every time I back her out of the garage. She always draws attention with her good looks and 3" sidepipes. I will not be trading this one away.

I always felt that Chevy 'had' to build a 5th Gen. Camaro to compete with the GT500 and told my wife that the moment that the Z28 (I know ZL1) was announced, I would buy one. I found a dealer last April and put a deposit on the first one that is available to them. The announcement in Chicago was wonderful. The car surpassed my wishes for this car. You and Team Camaro did a phenomenal job with this car. Other than very minor changes (everybody wants the car their own way), this car is awesome.

I will have a very special perspective because I will have the top of the line vehicle from 45 years ago sitting next to the most sophisticated and technologically advanced Camaro ever built. Although the 67 Vette cannot begin to compare with the technology that is in the ZL1, what they will be exactly alike is the way they will make me smile every time that I fire them up. My deepest thank you to you and the entire Chevy Team that made this car possible.

Now... if I can just convince Team Camaro to add the Heritage Grill, Jay Leno rear fender brake vents and paint it Marina Blue, the world will be at peace once again.

[hairtrigger]

Meanwhile - prepare for "Perma-Grin!"

.....and thanks for your enthusiasm - I think you're gonna be blown away by the new ZL1....[/QUOTE]


"Over a 3rd of the car is re-engineered.

We have not 'spilled the beans' on everything we've done."



I love finding all these teasers embedded in Mr. Settlemire's posts!
Thankyou Scott

[detltu]

Let me add one little thing to this conversation.

Most people seem to assume that X 1969 dollars adjusted for inflation would buy you a car that performs better, gets better gas mileage, produces less emissions, and is safer than the car you would get in 1969 for that money. I think for the most par that is true. The reason in some cases we pay more now than we did back then is largely due to a few things that have not changed proportionally during that time frame. Emissions and Safety. Government regulations have caused these two areas to advance faster than what I would call their normal rate. This is also an area that is probably underappreciated among performance enthusiasts. The cars paying gas guzzler taxes now still have very clean emmisions compared to the 1960s standards. The tighter emissions and safety standards have combined to hurt performance by adding weight and restricting engine parameters.

Safety and emissions are disproportionally better than they were in 1969. We sometimes have to pay a little more because of it.