How Much To R&R Long Block?

[thunderkyss]

Originally Posted by PBANDPKSCAMARO

Just trying to weigh options, cost, vs the value I'd be getting. I understand it will cost more money just trying to see how much. Obviously with a new short block sitting on a stand it does not take near as long to install a cam, lifters, etc, etc and the trans will already be unbolted as well for a build and converter/cooler addition.

So roughly....$11,000.00....new vvt cam, heads (ones I am looking at are $2200), trans build, converter/cooler install, labor and tune.

The other way....still have $2200 heads, $1400 cam kit, $4000 in trans parts build and converter/cooler install, $500 tune....that's $8500....$6000 for built shortblock is $14500....with $1500 allotted for r&ring the old one that's $16000.

Sell old long block for $2500-$3000....so $13500-$14000 out of pocket. Does that sound about right?

That sounds about right. & makes the most sense.

[PBANDPKSCAMARO]

Originally Posted by christianchevell

I went with a engine from ebay after checking around myself from custom engine supply in Angola Indiana part of Sag performance group. The price ended up being $5000 for a Forged short block 428 , ( only about 200$ more for a little bit more stroke) , with Molnar connecting rods and crank, and Racetek pistons, I went online and checked out the parts and they are real good and the pistons are from the prior owner of JE pistons who sold it, ( like the worlds largest piston supplier) and built up a new business in the sunshine after getting bored. And Molnar is better known by the names that take them and brand them their own....Like names I could not afford in other words.... Callies, Wisco k1, etc ... SO I was happy with the quality and the clearance of the block with the attention they gave to making sure to tell me what extras I could get like the Oil passage restrictor and rear seal etc. Also I was real happy I saved $400 by buying when it was not so close to summer as the price went up online I noticed. It was between them and Thompson motor sports for online as far as I could see and I looked all over.

CYLINDER BLOCK: GM LS3 ALUMINUM
BLOCK SIZE: 9.240 DECK HEIGHT
FASTENERS: ARP & GMPP
STATIC COMPRESSION RATIO : 11.01:1 W/ 68.5
COMBUSTION CHAMBER & .015 IN THE HOLE WITH .051
GASKET
CYLINDER BORE SIZE: 4.066
PISTON SIZE: 4.062 DIAMETER, 15 DEGREE VALVE ANGLE, -
5CC FT , 1.5, 1.5 3MM RING PACK
PISTON: 4032 ALLOY FORGED LOW EXPANSION
ROD: MOLNAR 4340 BILLET H-BEAM 6.125 WITH ARP 2000
7/16 ROD BOLTS
CRANK: MOLNAR 4340 FORGED 4.125 STROKE W/ 2.100 ROD PIN 1PC REAR MAIN SEAL LS1 MAIN
BALANCED INTERNAL/NEUTRAL
PISTON TO DECK CLEARACE: -0.015
PISTON TO HEAD CLEARANCE: .066
PISTON TO CYLINDER WALL: .004
HEAD GASKETS:
BEARINGS: KING STD XP ROD COATED & KING XP MAIN STD COATED (NARROWED TRI-METAL RACE BEARINGS)
RINGS: TOTAL SEAL CLASSIC SERIES DUCTILE IRON MOLY FILE FIT
CAMSHAFT:
CAM SPECS:
RING END GAP: .020 1

ST RING GAP .020 2ND RING GAP
ROD JOURNAL SIZE: 2.100 MAIN JOURNAL SIZE: 2.559
ROD BEARING OIL CLEARANCE: .002
MAIN BEARING OIL CLEARANCE: .0018 (IMPORTANT: NEW ENGINE MUST BE PRIMED BEFORE CRANKING OR STARTING)
CRANK END PLAY: .005
ROD SIDE CLEARANCE: .020
LIFTERS:
PUSH RODS:
ROCKER ARMS:
HEADS :
HEAD SET UP: VALVE SPRINGS INSTALL HEIGHT = LBS CLOSED ON SEAT LBS OPEN
COIL BIND = ( FROM COIL BIND AS HEADS ARE SET UP)
PISTON TO VALVE CLEARANCE: INTAKE EXHAUST (CLAY METHOD)
EFI:
OTHER INFORMATION:
NO SYNTHEIC OIL SHOULD BE USED FOR AT LEAST 3500 ODOMETER MILES OF DRIVING OR RINGS MAY NOT FULLY SEAT.
ENGINE RINGS ARE LOWER TENSION THIN METRIC DESIGN AND ARE NOT COMPATIABLE WITH THICK OILS. 5W/30W OR NO THICKER THAN
5W/40W IS RECOMMENDED

CUSTOM ENGINE BLUE PRINT SHEET
SAG PERFORMANCE GROUP (WWW.SAGPERFORMANCE.COM)
BUILT 6/2015
CUSTOMER: MARK MINCHER
MAKE: SMALL BLOCK CHEVROLET 15 DEGREE LS3 V8
CUBIC INCH: 428
RECOMMENDED FUEL:

PREMIUM PUMP GAS

DESIGNED & SOLD BY: JERRY LONG OF SAG PERFORMANCE
CONTACT: PHONE (785) 408-2911

E-MAIL ADDRESS: JERRY@SAGPERFORMANCE.COM

And I went with GMPP ported factory heads new with hollow intakes valves for $1200 from Summit. They out flowed a lot of others more spendy porting. Well that's how I saved money so far, I am still waiting for the Corvette that's waiting for a motor to get my install as I go to a one man shop that's constantly booked even with lots of competition in the same city...Vancouver WA. As I only want to use the best I could find as tuning does really matter. And talk about parts with the Guru and such and expect to be in the 550 rear wheel torque range which matters more to me than just high h.p.. as our cars are heavy, and 600+ h.p most likely. And the short block shipping was free..... I am on a budget not blind, and I know all the parts have added up, and everything should end up with about 13K for all said and done including Katech timing chain ,( not into grinding out the stock timing chain cover for double roller), ported oil pump high volume, dog bone ls2 chain dampener, Comp cam trunnion upgraded rockers, trick flow 7.425 hardened pushrods, Mast windage tray for a stroked motor: not into making the oil pump pick up too low in the pan or having the stock windage tray clearanced and shimmed with washers... I bought new LS7/ls3 lifters for $95 ebay shipped, I have saved everyway I can and researched over and over. I wish I was near a cheap performance shop but I am not, My Tuner gets $100 a hour because he is worth it and does not have cheap helpers so I pay to play, and he did my last cam/header install/ h.p. dyno tune and it came out to $2300 with tax with almost all the parts bought by me. Well good luck to you, I plan on around the same plus a little more in labor and he is installing my new modded ZL1 clutch from Monster and MGW shifter that's included in my build price the clutch is a dual with 700 rwhp rating for $1100 and I am doing a remote bleeder and billet release bearing support also. And of course I use Driven racing BR30 to do a double break in on the engine , ( which BTW is insisted apon by some very major chains even included in the price by some like TSP), then switch to ls30 after 500 miles as the valves etc... are seated by then and I also have a magnetic oil pan plug as I cover my bases better than most. I could have went cast iron and had the ability to bore it out or sleeve it in the future or gone spendy with a Dart block but that gains weight like 70lbs + and I look at our block as a 1200$ disposable block as they can only be honed not bored due to their cast in sleeves that are not always 100 % aligned right and get align honed factory and can only go .020 over.....Many do not know that, SO just saying a .005 over hone to get to a 415/416 etc is the same as for a 428 with only slightly more stroke to get to the larger displacement and just a little more clearancing and cost for the crank. Anyway good luck on your build !!! I am dying of anticipation myself ........ And PSS I went with a cam motion 8620 core stage three cam custom ground just for insurance as its the hardest around though my old TSP .639.623 still looks fine after 10K miles. And for the heck of it I bought some granatelli wires..., painted my intake and waterpump and bought some aluminum coil covers for $100 on ebay that they sell for like $200 at SLP.....

Thanks for the reply. So you have 13k in everything...parts, labor, and including the clutch? What #'s did you end up making?

[SSE 4 2SS]

Originally Posted by PBANDPKSCAMARO

Thanks for the reply. So you have 13k in everything...parts, labor, and including the clutch? What #'s did you end up making?

I've read through this and I have to state, be prepared for the nickel and dime stuff that always crops up....

Unless you have a turn key quote in hand you have to allow for a lot of these things.... No one can be prepared for every issue that may pop up, but they are always there.... Most shops will have a caveat for add ons.... Broken items not noted before the build started...

Just be informed and ask the questions of a shop prior to signing a build sheet....

[pavlos1]

i just did a comlpete long block from livernois motorsports.about 13.500.it is a pro version

[christianchevell]

New Short block $5k Molnar rotating forged and Racetec pistons all done up; plugged and clearanced, $70 piston expedite, $1400 GMPP ported heads, new head gaskets ; TTY bolts $200, New cam and springs and pushrods, bushing kit, high volume pump, c5r chain, dog bone dampener, lifter trays, mast windage tray 1000$ for those area, new intake manifold $200, fluids and filters $ 250, LT1s clutch $1400 with flywheel and billet bearing support, tick bleeder, this that and the other things and install and tow...LOL that's about what I fiqured it out to be around and I upgraded things like catch can , MGW shifter, etc... I am like broke now due to force of student loans for daughters science degree but three more years and I have money again ...LOL anyway power I made was compared to a nutted out stocker with the 235/239 TSP cam headers and HFC and CAI..I dropped HP with much milder cam but gained torque and overall HP and torque is way up under the curve, I now have

used to have

anyway I now have 483 torque compared to used to be 448 and it comes on 40 ft lbs right from the get go, and I think now I have 476 hp compared to 491 pervious engine but I am into taking it easy for a few years and did that deliberately to be easy on the springs to last til I get more $...… sure I gained torque and lost HP...….. but not really. My average power is up all across the board and the extra torque makes all the difference in the world form being able to fishtail all nannies on and take off like a rocket not just sound like it more. I picked the cam a stage three ,( still Mild) it was like .603 and .578 114+4 and 220 ish duration by low 230 I believe and added .010 to get .613 intake just to get low and mid range torque and not go like .639/.623 like previous cam with 112 LSA and 235/239. I left power on the table I know that I sacrificed for reliability in the near future until someday I go further. Average power right out the gate up in torque it appears on that screwy print out...with the o2s turned on late and the ink getting low...LOL was like up 40 ft lbs and 20 hp compared, over all 441/ 395 torque and HP AVG. versus the more all out 409 and 359 HP AVG. a net gain of 32 FT lbs and 37 HP on average all under the curve so to speak. Not bad for loosing from 491 hp to 476 ….IMO and that's what matters I am a old school hot rodder and know whats good to do to a cam for what IMO. SO someday...ls7 small bore heads, MSD intake, much wilder cam and this and that and I am way up there.


For now though its about what I can afford, and what works and actually its cool not just going for a number on a graph if you can compare the ones I just threw out there; my torque plateau is much more that I love and can feel than the sky rocket for HP of the other graphs HP; as one sits up there where I use it ..the Torque; the other well it shows how hard the engine works making it and its capability....HP. See on the one hard to read..that torques up there around the spot the red line ended on the other and its all the way from 3500-5500 good power range. And frankly saying more power under the Curve does not fit this engine as I have a Higher torque curve than HP curve...just like I planned in my head...……..