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Old 01-18-2019, 07:18 PM   #15
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+1

I want to see this one on the poll. I really want to know if this affects any of the TC or Stability control systems if the diameter ratio is off between front to rear as it would be if you went from stock SS to 1LE. If no worries on the control systems, I personally don't care about speedo or odo impacts.
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Old 01-24-2019, 08:38 PM   #16
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I'd still like to hear the Camaro team's input on this one.

I did get some additional info straight from GM on this topic that I wanted to share (around tuning for different tire sizes). I reached out to Jordan Garwood (Product and Marketing Manager: Performance Parts – All Vehicles
Performance Vehicles, Accessories, & Motorsports) on what it would take to put SS 1LE wheels/tires on my SS and calibrate for the different diameters:

"Unfortunately we (GM) don’t have a way for a dealer to do this [calibrate tire size or rev/mile] so it would require an aftermarket handheld tuner. Vehicle calibrations are specific to VINs and a dealer cannot put the cal from 1 VIN (1LE) into another VIN (SS). I can’t really say since these aren’t “manufacturer approved” vehicle calibration updates. I bounced the cal question to another Engineer I know, who was a Camaro test driver previously, and his reply is below:

Confirmed that we do have two different cals (SS & 1LE) for the speedo. We will have different cals for the ABS/TC/ESC for the different vehicles as well due to the tire and suspension differences. The lowering kit for the SS is meant to work with the SS tires. Should a customer choose to put the 1LE tires on the vehicle, the vehicle will have speed and odometer errors along with less optimized Chassis Control Cals. They may even risk voiding the vehicle warranty with this change.”

Of course the Performance Suspension Kit is designed to integrate perfectly with your stock SS vehicle and cals, but it sounds like the 1LE wheel and tire change is more challenging than even I would have anticipated since there is no “factory” calibration solution available and you would therefore need to find a tuner for more than one of your vehicle calibrations.

I agree the wheels would look great but it sounds difficult to get the exact calibrations needed to realize the desired performance benefits you are seeking.

So, even though this may not be the answer you wanted, hopefully it points you in the right direction should you decide to pursue.

Thanks again for your passion for your Camaro and all your interest in the Performance Suspension kit.

Hope this helps!"


I'd still really like to hear from the Camaro team what tire size differences (or front to rear ratio differences) start to matter from a ABS/TC/Stability control standpoint.
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Old 01-25-2019, 12:48 PM   #17
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Quote:
Originally Posted by vtirocz View Post
I'd still like to hear the Camaro team's input on this one.

I did get some additional info straight from GM on this topic that I wanted to share (around tuning for different tire sizes). I reached out to Jordan Garwood (Product and Marketing Manager: Performance Parts – All Vehicles
Performance Vehicles, Accessories, & Motorsports) on what it would take to put SS 1LE wheels/tires on my SS and calibrate for the different diameters:

"Unfortunately we (GM) don’t have a way for a dealer to do this [calibrate tire size or rev/mile] so it would require an aftermarket handheld tuner. Vehicle calibrations are specific to VINs and a dealer cannot put the cal from 1 VIN (1LE) into another VIN (SS). I can’t really say since these aren’t “manufacturer approved” vehicle calibration updates. I bounced the cal question to another Engineer I know, who was a Camaro test driver previously, and his reply is below:

Confirmed that we do have two different cals (SS & 1LE) for the speedo. We will have different cals for the ABS/TC/ESC for the different vehicles as well due to the tire and suspension differences. The lowering kit for the SS is meant to work with the SS tires. Should a customer choose to put the 1LE tires on the vehicle, the vehicle will have speed and odometer errors along with less optimized Chassis Control Cals. They may even risk voiding the vehicle warranty with this change.”

Of course the Performance Suspension Kit is designed to integrate perfectly with your stock SS vehicle and cals, but it sounds like the 1LE wheel and tire change is more challenging than even I would have anticipated since there is no “factory” calibration solution available and you would therefore need to find a tuner for more than one of your vehicle calibrations.

I agree the wheels would look great but it sounds difficult to get the exact calibrations needed to realize the desired performance benefits you are seeking.

So, even though this may not be the answer you wanted, hopefully it points you in the right direction should you decide to pursue.

Thanks again for your passion for your Camaro and all your interest in the Performance Suspension kit.

Hope this helps!"


I'd still really like to hear from the Camaro team what tire size differences (or front to rear ratio differences) start to matter from a ABS/TC/Stability control standpoint.

NICE job doing your homework Vtirocz! One thing to ask if you get time with your sources again is the fact that the Camaro team did pair the 1LE wheels in the testing that Team Camaro performed in answer to your Ask Al question. I would assume they had the same information about tire size against control systems programming, and went forward with it anyway. Now the question is, did they reprogram for the 1LE wheels, or did they deem the change not impactful enough to bother with it??

I was honestly afraid of that answer though. With all the control systems these vehicles have and how well thought out they are, I'd have been pretty surprised if they didn't account for wheel size. With that said, it is obvious lots of folks have made these changes, and relatively little ill effect, but I'd assume in the hands of very experienced drivers, they may catch the issues.

What I am really curious about now is whether it is diameter ratio or absolute diameter that will impact the control systems. I don't really care if the speedo is off a bit. I do care if the control systems are off. My logic is telling me that keeping the ratio is the more important piece of the puzzle, but even there, if the algorithms are taking speed of the car into account against tire rotation speed / revs/mile, that could impact the correction measures the nannies would try to make. What a PITA! I guess I'm back to my exercise of finding the right tire/wheel alternate combo to keep closer to the absolute diameter and diameter ratio

I have until March-ish to get this answered as that is when the weather will start to break here, and I'll be looking to get the new tires on. Who can we pester to get this out to Team Camaro - I would assume wheel changes are one of the most common modifications, and if there is a potential negative effect, this should be broadcast
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Old 01-25-2019, 08:38 PM   #18
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Shawnqa800720 View Post
One thing to ask if you get time with your sources again is the fact that the Camaro team did pair the 1LE wheels in the testing that Team Camaro performed in answer to your Ask Al question. I would assume they had the same information about tire size against control systems programming, and went forward with it anyway. Now the question is, did they reprogram for the 1LE wheels, or did they deem the change not impactful enough to bother with it??

I was honestly afraid of that answer though. With all the control systems these vehicles have and how well thought out they are, I'd have been pretty surprised if they didn't account for wheel size. With that said, it is obvious lots of folks have made these changes, and relatively little ill effect, but I'd assume in the hands of very experienced drivers, they may catch the issues.

What I am really curious about now is whether it is diameter ratio or absolute diameter that will impact the control systems. I don't really care if the speedo is off a bit. I do care if the control systems are off. My logic is telling me that keeping the ratio is the more important piece of the puzzle, but even there, if the algorithms are taking speed of the car into account against tire rotation speed / revs/mile, that could impact the correction measures the nannies would try to make. What a PITA! I guess I'm back to my exercise of finding the right tire/wheel alternate combo to keep closer to the absolute diameter and diameter ratio
In their testing of the suspension kits + SS 1LE wheels/tires, I would bet that they didn't mess with any tire size recalibration, especially if they know the customer can't change those parameter values (easily).
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Old 03-02-2019, 08:15 AM   #19
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What's the latest word on timing for another poll?
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Old 03-11-2019, 08:32 AM   #20
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This one needs to get on the new "Ask Team Camaro" Thread. Most specifically the impact of changing tire diameter on the control systems - Stability and traction control systems. The change from stock SS sizing to 1LE sizing is significant on front and rear, and also includes a change in diameter ration front to rear. The stock SS sizes are nearly identical F/R, while the 1LE changes the diameters and rakes the car as well, meaning the front diameter is a lot smaller than the rear.
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Old 03-11-2019, 08:35 AM   #21
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Originally Posted by Shawnqa800720 View Post
This one needs to get on the new "Ask Team Camaro" Thread. Most specifically the impact of changing tire diameter on the control systems - Stability and traction control systems. The change from stock SS sizing to 1LE sizing is significant on front and rear, and also includes a change in diameter ration front to rear. The stock SS sizes are nearly identical F/R, while the 1LE changes the diameters and rakes the car as well, meaning the front diameter is a lot smaller than the rear.

Related thread:

https://www.camaro6.com/forums/showthread.php?t=546509

and another:
https://www.camaro6.com/forums/showthread.php?t=546870
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Old 03-16-2019, 10:26 AM   #22
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Let's get this one the poll! This seems like easy money for GM / dealers to have the ability to program in the tire size, especially if it's a size currently offered on the model.
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Old 03-21-2019, 08:55 PM   #23
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I wanted to see if the original question could be reworded to incorporate all of Travis's (and other forum members) questions in subsequent posts? Here's a suggestion for the official question wording:

"What are the effects of a non-stock tire size on the sixth generation Camaro? Examples of this would be a SS (non-1LE) switching to SS 1LE wheels/tires (this is a very common upgrade) or a ZL1 (non-1LE) switching to the ZL1 1LE wheels/tires.

More specifically, we are interested in the following:
  • Which control modules contain the tire size information (or rev/mile) for the speedometer, ABS, traction control, and PTM?
  • Is there a method to correct the tire size in the control module(s) either at the dealer or via an aftermarket tuning tool without voiding the warranty? If there's no way to correct it currently, would the team consider adding this ability in the dealer's tool in service?
  • What tire size differences (or front to rear ratio differences) start to matter and have a potential negative impact on ABS, traction control, and/or PTM?
  • Would a tire size already offered on the 6th gen (ie. upgrading to SS 1LE on an SS) still be within a "safe zone" with negligible negative impact on ABS, traction control, and/or PTM?

The Camaro team / Al O. recently answered the suspension kit question (with track data!) and one of the tests they ran was to swap the SS 1LE wheel/tire kit onto an SS. The results were very favorable overall when this tire kit was added to a Camaro SS (which already had the suspension/lowering kit, so the wheel/tire kit was the only change between tests 3 and 4). I'm interested to hear if there were any trade-offs that weren't documented during that test. See more detail here: https://www.camaro6.com/forums/showthread.php?t=542333

Overall, we are really just looking for technical detail on the risks or trade-offs with running a non-stock tire size (even if it's a size offered on the 6th gen platform)."
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Old 03-22-2019, 10:52 AM   #24
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This question has been asked!
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Old 05-16-2019, 08:57 PM   #25
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This question has been asked!
Any word from the team on timing for this one?
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Old 07-01-2019, 12:12 PM   #26
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I am still interested in the Camaro team's response to this question.
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Old 07-18-2019, 07:10 AM   #27
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Nearly a year and a half since the original question was posted and I'm still interested in the answer.

Any chance we'll get an answer on this or is "Ask the Camaro Team" officially dead?
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Old 08-06-2019, 10:09 PM   #28
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Bump
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