Conservative tune help me get 50/100 hp more

[cc-rider]

Also…FWIW…I ran 18 degrees of timing on 91 octane…stock LS3 with a Kenne Bell pushing 9.5 psi. I tuned myself so I played quite a bit with timing. Timing makes power. But it’s a total balance of boost, octane, and timing. And also how close to the edge you want to run. The knock sensors actually work quite well and will pull timing when knock is sensed. And I used (and abused) that. Full disclosure. But the power was addicting and I could feel how much power timing gave and wanted to push the edge a bit. Worth noting that I did eventually blow my engine. But it wasn’t a knock related meltdown. The cats blew out and plugged in the X-pipe at 6000 rpm….bent the rods up (search posts here and you can see the details). Perhaps timing did play a part in that and created too much heat down the headers burning the cats out. So might not be fair to say that too much timing wasn’t any part of the culprit. But I put 10k miles on that 18-degree timing set up. Benefits of tuning yourself. If I owned a shop, I would have never tuned a customers car there. But part of the reason I learned to tune myself was that I could just sense that the tunes were so conservative.

And now I’m rebuilding! Just started my engine pull out. So bottom line…conservative at 600hp might be better than aggressive at 650hp. Only you can decide!

[Mr2Hard2See]

First off you guys have been tremendous help on helping my get properly educated on this material, so thanks to all who’s replied.

Originally Posted by RealQuick

That timing is what you'd run on 93 octane... costing you quite a bit of power. I'd guess you could run 4-5 more degrees no problem... probably pick up 30-40hp.

That’s what I was thinking as well.

Originally Posted by Batmanntexas

I forgot to mention that my numbers were all achieved with a ported stock TB.

I went and looked at my timing tables, and I am seeing 18* for 93 octane, and then there is additional timing added for alcohol. The amount if timing added depends on the percentage of alcohol content in the fuel.

As for an A/F ratio, for a boosted application, 11.5 is plenty safe (pump gas).


-Scott

Sweet now I have an idea about where I should push it up too.

Originally Posted by cc-rider

It’s all in the timing. 15 degrees is insanely low…especially on E85. Could be that the tuned for pump gas but then didn’t set up the right transfer table for the ethanol sensor? You can search here and read many posts about how much timing people are running on E85 with a build like yours.

Pulling timing back is a failsafe way to protect a motor. To be “conservative”. But timing adds a ton of power too. Max power always runs on that ragged edge.

I’ve been on the forum reading up and checked out some great builds. My understanding is getting some much better now.

Originally Posted by cc-rider

Also…FWIW…I ran 18 degrees of timing on 91 octane…stock LS3 with a Kenne Bell pushing 9.5 psi. I tuned myself so I played quite a bit with timing. Timing makes power. But it’s a total balance of boost, octane, and timing. And also how close to the edge you want to run. The knock sensors actually work quite well and will pull timing when knock is sensed. And I used (and abused) that. Full disclosure. But the power was addicting and I could feel how much power timing gave and wanted to push the edge a bit. Worth noting that I did eventually blow my engine. But it wasn’t a knock related meltdown. The cats blew out and plugged in the X-pipe at 6000 rpm….bent the rods up (search posts here and you can see the details). Perhaps timing did play a part in that and created too much heat down the headers burning the cats out. So might not be fair to say that too much timing wasn’t any part of the culprit. But I put 10k miles on that 18-degree timing set up. Benefits of tuning yourself. If I owned a shop, I would have never tuned a customers car there. But part of the reason I learned to tune myself was that I could just sense that the tunes were so conservative.

And now I’m rebuilding! Just started my engine pull out. So bottom line…conservative at 600hp might be better than aggressive at 650hp. Only you can decide!

Hptuners is my next purchase and a wideband setup so I can really see the parameters and learn what was set. I for sure am not trying to be a tuner but I’ll use the instrument to monitor my build in an more in-depth way.

[Mr2Hard2See]

My intentions was to take a couple photos but after seeing a GTR light up the same street I changed my mind and spontaneously did something similar. I guess you can say bad influence but I enjoyed it.

http://youtu.be/FMkEXkDvJ6Y

[acammer]

Agree with these guys - 15* on E85 at 12# of boost is very conservative. For pump 93, you might be about where it wants to be, maybe would take a few more degrees still. I would have expected around 650whp on pump gas, and 700+whp on E85. Maybe even a little more, since this is an L99 or LS3 with a bunch more compression than an LSA. That factors into the timing too though, actual LSA cars have much lower static compression, and so they eat up more timing, a 10.7:1 motor will not take what a 9.5:1 will for ignition at 12psi of stanky hot PD blower air.

[eLeSthree]

Most LSA's make around 600 with FBOs, pulley and E85 through an auto. 650 with a cam.
My CTS-V runs 18 degrees of timing on 93 octane and 12.5 psi (2.55)
On E85, I run about 24 degrees. But keep in mind the lsa has over 1 point less compression.

If you do a larger intake and 103tb, make sure you open up the snout to match.

The other thing I noticed, is that you have a stock ZL1 heat exchanger. Maybe your tune is only allowing 15 degrees because your Intake temps are too high. Your tuner could have it set to pull timing when it gets too hot.

That setup should have a really nice heat exchanger, tank and pump.