Lifter tick? Guidance from here

[Nate2SS]

Hello everyone,

I know its been a while since I've updated you guys. Life got in the way and haven't been able to get to the car until now. It indeed was a lifter. I have some photos to share and would love some insight on what you guys think may have happened. I have my predictions but hoping the camshaft is salvageable. A little concerned on how it looks but will take a borescope to it tomorrow when the light comes back.

Feel free to peep into this album, a little bonus if you notice the 3d printed tool I found. https://imgur.com/a/UjsOUpD

Thank you guys for the help with this, this place has been a safe haven for me to share my insanity with when it comes to this car. Hopefully no more problems for the foreseeable future.

[102SS]

Are you going to swap the cam?

Pretty sure with scoring on the lifter there is some on the cam.

While your at it a valve spring refresh might be a good idea with a high lift cam.

[acammer]

Originally Posted by Nate2SS

Hello everyone,

I know its been a while since I've updated you guys. Life got in the way and haven't been able to get to the car until now. It indeed was a lifter. I have some photos to share and would love some insight on what you guys think may have happened. I have my predictions but hoping the camshaft is salvageable. A little concerned on how it looks but will take a borescope to it tomorrow when the light comes back.

Feel free to peep into this album, a little bonus if you notice the 3d printed tool I found. https://imgur.com/a/UjsOUpD

Thank you guys for the help with this, this place has been a safe haven for me to share my insanity with when it comes to this car. Hopefully no more problems for the foreseeable future.

Even from a blurry look down the lifter bore I can tell that cam is toast. Sorry man, but that's the way a lot of them go. Not sure what you're thinking for a solution, but if you decide aftermarket cam is the right move for you then feel free to reach out to me directly and we can help get a good package together for you here at GPI. Andrew@gwatneyperformance.com would be a good way to contact me, or find me on Facebook. You can message on here, but I don't get here as often as I'd like, so my messages here get pretty stale.

The fuel line tool is pretty cool - nice to have!

[Moto-Mojo]

So, for us stock cars, is the consensus that this was brought on more by an aftermarket cam, etc? Or are we all just driving "ticking" time bombs?

[acammer]

Originally Posted by Moto-Mojo

So, for us stock cars, is the consensus that this was brought on more by an aftermarket cam, etc? Or are we all just driving "ticking" time bombs?

Internet forums tend to bring out the worst of a platform and put it in the spotlight. You read enough threads and you'll end up believing that every 5th gen is going to eat a set of lifters, snap it's axles, and have hot cranking issues. In reality, the majority DON'T have these problems, but some inevitably will.

To your specific question I think the answer is that an aftermarket, high lift camshaft is more likely to fail a lifter. You have more lift, more aggressive lobes, more spring pressure, and usually more aggressive driving manners to go along with a modded car. So, it would make sense that you'll see more failures in those cases.

The offset to this problem should be higher quality parts. The lifter is already an overworked and underpaid piece in the LS when it's stock, going back with a stock lifter on a more aggressive cam and valve spring is going to produce a predictable result of early failure. A cam package needs to be well thought out and appropriated for it's intended us case, and most places will just sell you on price and then you can pay it again down the road. It's frustrating to see.

[Moto-Mojo]

Originally Posted by acammer

Internet forums tend to bring out the worst of a platform and put it in the spotlight. You read enough threads and you'll end up believing that every 5th gen is going to eat a set of lifters, snap it's axles, and have hot cranking issues. In reality, the majority DON'T have these problems, but some inevitably will.

To your specific question I think the answer is that an aftermarket, high lift camshaft is more likely to fail a lifter. You have more lift, more aggressive lobes, more spring pressure, and usually more aggressive driving manners to go along with a modded car. So, it would make sense that you'll see more failures in those cases.

The offset to this problem should be higher quality parts. The lifter is already an overworked and underpaid piece in the LS when it's stock, going back with a stock lifter on a more aggressive cam and valve spring is going to produce a predictable result of early failure. A cam package needs to be well thought out and appropriated for it's intended us case, and most places will just sell you on price and then you can pay it again down the road. It's frustrating to see.

Thanks, Andrew. I think you might be one of the most respected authorities around these parts! It makes total sense. Even if GM was rolling the dice on the stock lifters, (and likely were) added stress outside the OE specs must make it a soft target.

And so true about the 'internets.' Bad news sells clicks. In my case, the 'fear' has sold a ton of Amsoil! For us mere mortals, GOOD, clean oil is about all we can do exorcize the demon L99 lifters!

[acammer]

Originally Posted by Moto-Mojo

Thanks, Andrew. I think you might be one of the most respected authorities around these parts! It makes total sense. Even if GM was rolling the dice on the stock lifters, (and likely were) added stress outside the OE specs must make it a soft target.

And so true about the 'internets.' Bad news sells clicks. In my case, the 'fear' has sold a ton of Amsoil! For us mere mortals, GOOD, clean oil is about all we can do exorcize the demon L99 lifters!

You said it really well and I'll probably repeat it exactly so - the OEM lifters are a soft target! Stack some extra pressure (literally in this case) on and it's going to reveal it's weakness.

As for the oil, I think good oil is one of the best things you can do for those troublesome systems. Sludge, poor sheer resistance, low viscosity from low thermal tolerance, all things that can be avoided with a quality oil and a good routine for keeping it fresh. I'm "team Driven" and run LS30 in my car, but I think Amsoil also has some really good stuff, and I think a smart man is willing to spend a little extra for quality protection that saves him thousands down the road.

[Moto-Mojo]

Originally Posted by acammer

You said it really well and I'll probably repeat it exactly so - the OEM lifters are a soft target! Stack some extra pressure (literally in this case) on and it's going to reveal its weakness.

As for the oil, I think good oil is one of the best things you can do for those troublesome systems. Sludge, poor sheer resistance, low viscosity from low thermal tolerance, all things that can be avoided with a quality oil and a good routine for keeping it fresh. I'm "team Driven" and run LS30 in my car, but I think Amsoil also has some really good stuff, and I think a smart man is willing to spend a little extra for quality protection that saves him thousands down the road.

Feel free to use my analogy! I hate to hijack a thread, but since I've got you riffing here, I have another question about your opinion on tuning out AFM. Obviously, tuning out AFM and keeping the suspect lifters, doesn't do a great deal in and of itself. But what's your opinion/knowledge about the fact that it doesn't have to collapse on itself all the time adding to its life? I'm thinking the spring might be happier but the rest of the components are still there working. I've been tuned out for 4-5 years. (48K total miles)

I guess I might've inadvertently circled back to my time bomb question. Thanks!

[acammer]

I've heard it both ways - if you suspend use of the mechanism maybe they will last longer - but also they are more likely to get gunked up if they are never cycled. I land with the former, I think the less "on-off" cycles they have, the less likely they are to fail completely. BUT, I think they are a fairly weak lifter because of that design, and are more likely to fail than a non-AFM lifter. Still - have seen plenty, not treated well, go 200,000 miles and keep working fine. So, until you're ready to do a cam, just keep the oil clean and enjoy the car!

[acutron42]

I have not been on in awhile here, but Andrew is spot on as usual. The whole afm lifter deal is tough to judge. Anything mass produced is prone to a certain percentage of failure. I think this holds true across all makes and models.

[Moto-Mojo]

Originally Posted by acammer

I've heard it both ways - if you suspend use of the mechanism maybe they will last longer - but also they are more likely to get gunked up if they are never cycled. I land with the former, I think the less "on-off" cycles they have, the less likely they are to fail completely. BUT, I think they are a fairly weak lifter because of that design, and are more likely to fail than a non-AFM lifter. Still - have seen plenty, not treated well, go 200,000 miles and keep working fine. So, until you're ready to do a cam, just keep the oil clean and enjoy the car!

Your dudeness, if I lived near AR, you'd have already gotten my cam job! Still entertain towing options from time to time. But the left coast is a long way. :(

[acutron42]

Moto, you take pristine car of your car. I would say if you do have an issue (hope not) You will catch it before it causes major damage. It is the people who will ignore a problem & then ask for advice when the major damage is done & blame the afm. There are two sides of a story & then the truth.

[Moto-Mojo]

Originally Posted by acutron42

Moto, you take pristine car of your car. I would say if you do have an issue (hope not) You will catch it before it causes major damage. It is the people who will ignore a problem & then ask for advice when the major damage is done & blame the afm. There are two sides of a story & then the truth.

You're right, acutron. I do take care of it. Better than I do myself. But that's for another forum! And I read too much, too. Or, 'maybe you've had a little too much to think.' To try and bring this thread back to Kansas, it's the dreaded ticking we all fear. But it's always good to get real world data from the acammer's of the world. Thanks again, Andrew.

But rest assured, I will drive it...and enjoy it!