Russia-China Warn US That Israeli Attack On Iran Means World War

[Jas29]

Source: http://dprogram.net/2009/07/18/russi...-war%E2%80%9D/
OR
http://www.cfciowa.org/K017/index.ph...-news&Itemid=7

A chilling report circulating in the Kremlin today states that President Medvedev and Chinese President Hu have issued an “urgent warning” to the United States that says if the Americans allow an Israeli nuclear attack upon Iran, “World War will be our response”.

Russian President Medvedev and Chinese President Hu have issued an urgent warning to the United States
that if the Americans allow an Israeli nuclear attack upon Iran, World War will be our response.


Israel has moved three-quarters of its Naval Forces through the Suez Canal and has assembled its fighter jets in Kurdistan for a planned attack using American made bunker busting bombs and nuclear armed cruise missiles. Russia claims Israel plans to use the jets to target Iran nuclear facilities.

If Iran and Lebanonese Hellzballah respond with missiles on northern Israel, Israeli submarines and surface vessels with unleash nuclear armed cruise missiles against Iran military, religious and political infrastructure.

Israel is investing time in preparing itself for the complexity of an attack on Iran. These maneuvers are a message to Iran that Israel will follow up on its threats.

President Bush had become so alarmed over Israeli plan to attack Iran that he refused the Israeli request for 1,000 of the American bunker busting bombs.

Supposedly, the Israeli Prime Minister gave 0bama a stark warning this year that - Either you take care of Iran quickly, or I will.


KURDISTAN (North IRAQ near IRAN)

Fueling Russian and Chinese fears is the planned use of Iraqi territory from their Kurdistan region which borders Iran.

KURDISTAN seeks to become an independent Nation with a new constitution. (Remember, Saddam killed many Kurds with the mustard gas world media claim Iraq did not have. cough)

Syria warned that upon Turkey and Iran declaring war upon Kurdistan and Israel, Syria would have no choice but to honor its defense agreements with Iran.

Turkey is a member of NATO which calls for the United States and Europe to join with the Turkish military in fighting Israel and Kurdistan. (Under Bush, the USA already betrayed the Kurds at least once under such agreement.)

While the USA Military has been fighting in Iraq, the United States and Iran have longstanding agreements allowing Iran to shell Iraqi Kurd territory without fear of reprisal, an agreement that also includes Turkey who have battled against the Iraqi Kurds for decades.

Russia and China will place an embargo against any oil and gas coming from the Middle East and weapons to the region the United States may try to supply. China further warns that upon an Israeli attack upon Iran they will immediately cease to purchase any more US debt. (I thot they already did.)

China $2 Trillion in reserves are the only thing keeping the US economy afloat. (Supports the MANY threats from MANY sources of September being the END of the USA.)

Can Israeli Iron Dome missile defense system withstand the estimated 6,000 plus missiles expected to be fired at it by the combined powers of Iran, Syria and Hellzballah?

[Zabo]

The minute I saw 'Illuminati' I just hung my head..

[PQ]

Speculation.

I swear, if the press REALLY knew what was going on. I'd have to say that we are the dumbest species to ever exist.

[coolman]

Well, if this is the end of the USA then everyone on the fence about buying a camaro should jump right off and buy one , beat the hell out if it and enjoy it. How do you spell camaro in chinese?

[len56]

Originally Posted by Zabo

The minute I saw 'Illuminati' I just hung my head..

what do you mean?

[PQ]

Originally Posted by coolman

How do you spell camaro in chinese?

Camero

[GMtothecore]

WTF!?!...I don't want to have take another trip. lol

[Number 3]

Did they perchance say if there would be a World War if Iran were to Nuke Israel?

[The_Blur]

This is a dangerous thread, so let's be sure not to post actual political agendas here. If we want to analyze the potential sides of such a war, that might be safe grounds on which to tread without getting the thread closed. Let's try to keep in mind that Camaro5 has members all over the world.

That being said, I've been discussing this situation with a few people. There is a lot of discussion to be had on this issue. I'll run through a scenario based upon realism, a theory of political science based heavily on power and national relationships.

Iran, as we all know, is what many can safely call a rogue state. It routinely violates international agreements and laws, leading to UN sanctions that have been passed and enforced by much of the international community.

Israel, as we all know, is a key strategic partner of the US in the Middle East because it represents the only widely successful western democracy in the region and a key ally in fighting the Soviet Union with its world class spies. Without this espionage, the US would only have nations west of the Iron Curtain as sources of intelligence, making the Cold War much more difficult to end.

For a large list of reasons ranging from religious fanaticism, totalitarianism, terrorism, and culture, Iran does not agree with democracies in general, claiming instead that its government gains its legitimacy from God, allowing the current regime to essentially brush off any wrongdoing as the work of evildoers. A great recent example of this is Iran's claims that the UK and US inspired the protesters inside Iran that opposed the outcome of what the international community has widely recognized as a fraudulent election. In addition to these facts, it is also important to note that Israel, as a statistical minority in the region, has been known to engage in first strike campaigns in order to prevent what happened during the Six Day War that nearly led to Israel's destruction but instead led to the destruction of neighboring armies. This is the basis of the discussion to follow.

The Likely War
Iran attempts to build nukes. Israel blows up the facility where this happens. Iran then launches missiles at Israel. Syria aligns with Iran, sending troops through Lebanon into the Golan Heights. Israel holds down the Syrian military in the mountains, defending its territory. NATO demands that Syria withdraw troops immediately, but no such demand is met. Israel strategically bombs Iran and Syria. NATO eventually sides with Israel to the dismay of the Arabic powers in the region. The war eventually ends when NATO neutralizes the invading forces in Lebanon. Russia and China refuse to participate in the war, but they vehemently oppose NATO's actions, and years of bad relations ensue.

The Possible Expansion of Conflict
Instead of ending with NATO forces crushing inferior Iranian and Syrian militaries, the Russians and Chinese fund and support Iran. Other nations pledging support to the invaders may include Venezuela, Myanmar, and North Korea. US allies Australia, South Korea, and Taiwan enter the conflict, bombing Syria and Iran. The US and other allies inject troops from Iraq into Iran. If Iran falls, before Russia and China send troops, the war ends.

The Gargantuan Conflict
If Iran holds out long enough to get actual military support from Russia and China, then the war gets out of control. I will break down the sides as they will likely play out.

Democracies and Allies
• United States
• Canada
• United Kingdom
• Israel
• Australia
• South Korea
• Taiwan
• Japan (political support, not legally allows to have an aggressive military)
• Germany (political support, very few if any troops)
• France (political support, very few if any troops)
• Turkey (very limited involvement)
• Poland (missile bases)
• NATO (except for aforementioned states, obviously)

Rogue States and Aggressors
• Iran
• Syria
• Venezuela
• North Korea
• Russia
• China
• Honduras

In this situation, Israel likely knocks Syria out of the war and engages remaining troops in an aggressive military occupation of southern Lebanon. North Korea invades South Korea, tying down troops already on the peninsula. China funnels massive numbers of troops into North Korea and sends forces to invade Taiwan. The US and other NATO allies sends troops to the area to defend as much of the region as possible. Without the need to avoid a conflict with China as was the case with the Korean War, the US freely bombs all Chinese ports. The US equips Japan with missiles and starts using Japan as a base to defeat Chinese forces. Eventually, NATO evacuates forces from South Korea, sending them to Taiwan and Japan, losing the peninsula completely. Meanwhile, Russia sends forces to defend Iran and occupies former Soviet republics equipped with US arms in order to thwart a ground invasion. NATO holds a firm line against Russia in Europe. Neither side progresses. During this stalemate, a major military campaign begins in Turkey, sending units to support Israel. Syria is defeated quickly with this assistance.

Stalemate Scenario
With Europe looking frighteningly similar to the Europe of the Cold War, South Korea defeated, and Chinese units overwhelming democratic forces, the war looks bleak for the side with oil working against it. At this point, negotiations may begin for a treaty, assuming the aggressors are willing to negotiate. Demands will include the partition of Israel by its neighbors and to keep all land seized during earlier campaigns. The following world order will be much like the Cold War. The UN collapses. Other wars ensue periodically every few years for up to 100 years.

A World Safe for Democracy
Allies, in a stalemate worldwide, have the advantage of technology that outperforms enemies. This allows for a rapid invasion of Venezuela and a seizure of all oil resources there. Allies use these resources and an overwhelming US military budget to eventually cripple individual enemies. Guerrilla war ensues in Iran and China after allied forces manage to take them by ground invasion. Russia voluntarily withdraws from the conflict when its allies begin to fall. China, with weakened industrial capacity and a small internal push for democracy, becomes much friendlier after the war and develops a democratic government.

The Tragic Ending
If OPEC manages to stop enough of the democratic oil supply, undersupplied nations begin to drop out of the war. The EU seeks a treaty to stop fighting with Russia and China, but NATO members still offer support to the US secretly with funds, but China cashes in its portion of the US debt, leading to a collapse of the dollar and the entire US economic system. To crown the enemy with victory, Israel is defeated by Russian units, leading to the end of the war.

[Kyle2k]

Wait a second, Bush is still the president?

[PQ]

Originally Posted by Kyle2k

Wait a second, Bush is still the president?

They were just speaking of status quoe type scenario.


Blur. What do YOU think is the most likely?

[drivingincamaro]

Originally Posted by The_Blur

This is a dangerous thread, so let's be sure not to post actual political agendas here. If we want to analyze the potential sides of such a war, that might be safe grounds on which to tread without getting the thread closed. Let's try to keep in mind that Camaro5 has members all over the world.

That being said, I've been discussing this situation with a few people. There is a lot of discussion to be had on this issue. I'll run through a scenario based upon realism, a theory of political science based heavily on power and national relationships.

Iran, as we all know, is what many can safely call a rogue state. It routinely violates international agreements and laws, leading to UN sanctions that have been passed and enforced by much of the international community.

Israel, as we all know, is a key strategic partner of the US in the Middle East because it represents the only widely successful western democracy in the region and a key ally in fighting the Soviet Union with its world class spies. Without this espionage, the US would only have nations west of the Iron Curtain as sources of intelligence, making the Cold War much more difficult to end.

For a large list of reasons ranging from religious fanaticism, totalitarianism, terrorism, and culture, Iran does not agree with democracies in general, claiming instead that its government gains its legitimacy from God, allowing the current regime to essentially brush off any wrongdoing as the work of evildoers. A great recent example of this is Iran's claims that the UK and US inspired the protesters inside Iran that opposed the outcome of what the international community has widely recognized as a fraudulent election. In addition to these facts, it is also important to note that Israel, as a statistical minority in the region, has been known to engage in first strike campaigns in order to prevent what happened during the Six Day War that nearly led to Israel's destruction but instead led to the destruction of neighboring armies. This is the basis of the discussion to follow.

The Likely War
Iran attempts to build nukes. Israel blows up the facility where this happens. Iran then launches missiles at Israel. Syria aligns with Iran, sending troops through Lebanon into the Golan Heights. Israel holds down the Syrian military in the mountains, defending its territory. NATO demands that Syria withdraw troops immediately, but no such demand is met. Israel strategically bombs Iran and Syria. NATO eventually sides with Israel to the dismay of the Arabic powers in the region. The war eventually ends when NATO neutralizes the invading forces in Lebanon. Russia and China refuse to participate in the war, but they vehemently oppose NATO's actions, and years of bad relations ensue.

The Possible Expansion of Conflict
Instead of ending with NATO forces crushing inferior Iranian and Syrian militaries, the Russians and Chinese fund and support Iran. Other nations pledging support to the invaders may include Venezuela, Myanmar, and North Korea. US allies Australia, South Korea, and Taiwan enter the conflict, bombing Syria and Iran. The US and other allies inject troops from Iraq into Iran. If Iran falls, before Russia and China send troops, the war ends.

The Gargantuan Conflict
If Iran holds out long enough to get actual military support from Russia and China, then the war gets out of control. I will break down the sides as they will likely play out.

Democracies and Allies
• United States
• Canada
• United Kingdom
• Israel
• Australia
• South Korea
• Taiwan
• Japan (political support, not legally allows to have an aggressive military)
• Germany (political support, very few if any troops)
• France (political support, very few if any troops)
• Turkey (very limited involvement)
• Poland (missile bases)
• NATO (except for aforementioned states, obviously)

Rogue States and Aggressors
• Iran
• Syria
• Venezuela
• North Korea
• Russia
• China
• Honduras

In this situation, Israel likely knocks Syria out of the war and engages remaining troops in an aggressive military occupation of southern Lebanon. North Korea invades South Korea, tying down troops already on the peninsula. China funnels massive numbers of troops into North Korea and sends forces to invade Taiwan. The US and other NATO allies sends troops to the area to defend as much of the region as possible. Without the need to avoid a conflict with China as was the case with the Korean War, the US freely bombs all Chinese ports. The US equips Japan with missiles and starts using Japan as a base to defeat Chinese forces. Eventually, NATO evacuates forces from South Korea, sending them to Taiwan and Japan, losing the peninsula completely. Meanwhile, Russia sends forces to defend Iran and occupies former Soviet republics equipped with US arms in order to thwart a ground invasion. NATO holds a firm line against Russia in Europe. Neither side progresses. During this stalemate, a major military campaign begins in Turkey, sending units to support Israel. Syria is defeated quickly with this assistance.

Stalemate Scenario
With Europe looking frighteningly similar to the Europe of the Cold War, South Korea defeated, and Chinese units overwhelming democratic forces, the war looks bleak for the side with oil working against it. At this point, negotiations may begin for a treaty, assuming the aggressors are willing to negotiate. Demands will include the partition of Israel by its neighbors and to keep all land seized during earlier campaigns. The following world order will be much like the Cold War. The UN collapses. Other wars ensue periodically every few years for up to 100 years.

A World Safe for Democracy
Allies, in a stalemate worldwide, have the advantage of technology that outperforms enemies. This allows for a rapid invasion of Venezuela and a seizure of all oil resources there. Allies use these resources and an overwhelming US military budget to eventually cripple individual enemies. Guerrilla war ensues in Iran and China after allied forces manage to take them by ground invasion. Russia voluntarily withdraws from the conflict when its allies begin to fall. China, with weakened industrial capacity and a small internal push for democracy, becomes much friendlier after the war and develops a democratic government.

The Tragic Ending
If OPEC manages to stop enough of the democratic oil supply, undersupplied nations begin to drop out of the war. The EU seeks a treaty to stop fighting with Russia and China, but NATO members still offer support to the US secretly with funds, but China cashes in its portion of the US debt, leading to a collapse of the dollar and the entire US economic system. To crown the enemy with victory, Israel is defeated by Russian units, leading to the end of the war.

wow Blur that was really in depth

you Really know what your talking about what did you go to college for?

[diddiyo]

i got $50 on the russians!

[The_Blur]

Originally Posted by irpq11

They were just speaking of status quoe type scenario.


Blur. What do YOU think is the most likely?

If I had to pick the most likely scenario, I'd say that war will not break out. Iran will not fight Israel, especially with the strategic disadvantage of having US troops in neighboring Iraq. OPEC will not stop the US oil shipments because OPEC economies enjoy actually making money from big oil buyers, like the US. Israel might blow up the facility because it did it to Iraq and Syria in the past, but neither Iran nor Syria will go to war because neither of them could hate Israel any more than they do right now, and they aren't at war today. If they were, they'd lose tomorrow. If war actually did break out, Israel is so disproportionately powerful a military force that both countries will lose within 1 day. The US will caution Israel to use restraint, and will act as a mediator.

If NATO became involved in this conflict, NATO would defeat almost any other force. NATO is pretty much an unstoppable force. Russia, however, is an immovable object, creating a brilliant showdown between classically aggressive Russia and a powerful West. Since NATO gains nothing from bringing down Russia and since Russia has no intention of seizing all of Europe, this conflict will end diplomatically before it becomes a slugfest.

North Korea really might invade South Korea, but this would be totally separate from the whole discussion of Israel and Iran. If a war broke out between Israel and any other country, North Korea would have an opportunity to strike South Korea with more surprise and force. North Korea will almost certainly use chemical weapons and will inflict massive casualties, but South Korea and the US will eventually turn back the aggressors. China will probably provide some lackluster support for a Korean conflict, but it will try to poise itself as a mediator because China's economy is dependent on US imports, as well as the imports of so many other democratic powers.

In all of this fighting, the only likely users of nuclear technology are North Korea and Iran. Everyone else will use chemical or conventional weapons, except for Russia. Russia might also use biological weapons.

In all of this discussion, the most important factor is technology. The West is simply more advanced than any other force, leading to the strong likelihood that the US and allies would win swiftly. Most weapons from these nations can fire at incomprehensibly distant targets and penetrate defenses like an ax can penetrate a marshmallow. The closest technology is available in Russia, and those of us reading the recent international news know that Russia's missile shield-penetrating weapons fail 60% of the time. People at Russian launch pads are so much more likely to get blown up that the US might not even bother bombing them, instead leaving Russia to attempt launching its own malfunctioning missiles.

A lot of people like to play up certain relationships as leading to the sides of a world conflict. While it might be fun to theorize over the strategic battles of one side versus the other or discussing how one side can righteously stand against the tyranny of another, there really is not much of a chance that a world conflict will happen the way it did in the first half of the 20th century. There are too many obstacles to such a conflict, and the world is so interdependent that any declaration of war will be self-crippling to whichever nation issues such a declaration first.

Originally Posted by drivingincamaro

wow Blur that was really in depth

you Really know what your talking about what did you go to college for?

I graduated from the University of Kansas with a BA in Political Science. One of the 4 sections that I focussed very closely on studying was international politics. There are 5 areas in the political science field that KU uses to organize its classes. I fulfilled the requirements for 4 of those sections and half of the requirements of the 5th.