drove a mustang, hate my camaro now

[Stealthpanda]

Originally Posted by brandonrr

the mustang being .1 sec faster 0-60 than the camaro is true.....if you are comparing it to a 2010 camaro. i'm pretty confident the 2012 camaro would beat a mustang stock against stock in both 0-60 and the 1/4 mile.

the 2012 camaro has a new engine with a composite intake manifold. the aluminum one on the 2010-2011 camaro was a major power sapper, due to the heat soak that caused the intake air to be heated before entering the cylinders. also, the 2012 camaro has improved porting as well as the improved, integrated exhaust manifolds. the engine is also lighter in the 2012 camaro as well.

also, as for as the drivetrain loss, panda, are you talking about the automatics? the cars i am comparing are both manual transmissions.

Pumpkin rears (IRS) = more drive-train loss. %'s. SRA (Solid/Live Rear Axle) you do not lose as much, as the previous. No doubt the 2012 is quicker, and I dont know off hand the weight difference, but these things matter. I didnt take into account Manual Vs Auto as IIRC both cars have a different ratio. IIRC Mustangs V6 Manual vs Auto is different gearing, but the Camaro V6 both have 3.27 IIRC?

<--- Drives a Camaro V6 (LLT) so im REALLY not fighting for the other team hah!

If what Deki says is true, 2011's with a good driver Manual are running 13.4-13.7 (mids) and stock 2011's Manual Camaros were running what 14.1? Didnt look too much into it. That number sticks out though. (BOLD)For the 2012's is 18 HP .3-.4 tenths? Cheers.

[brandonrr]

Originally Posted by Deki

Lol yes we have. I loved driving the Camaro. I drove a 2011 before I got my GT and I have recently driven a 2012 with the updated FE4 suspension and the slightly updated interior. Loved the car, the power band, and the new interior is more fitting the price. The LS3 makes my 302 feel peaky, even though I know it's really not compared to anything else I've owned.

my dad has the same car as you deki. i will admit, i love the 5.0 engine in the GT. it is a real beast that pushes that car around like it weighs nothing.

the v6 mustang, on the other hand, just seemed underpowered to me. i am unbiased in my review, and actually prefer the Ford brand name over the Chevy name. there is no way in hell that the 2012 v6 mustang is anywhere near as powerful as the 2012 V6 camaro. like i said in my first post, i had a planned "power test"

this was my simple "power test"

city test:
1. go 0-60 as fast as possible. (speed limit on that particular road was 55mph)
2. in 2nd gear, at 2000RPMs, give it full throttle for approx. 2 seconds.
3. repeat test 2 at 3000RPMs
4. repeat test 2 at 4000RPMs
5. repeat test 2 at 5000RPMs (for 1 second)
highway:
similar process as 2-5 from the city test, but in 2-5th gear, in order to stay within reasonable speeds. (no more than 10mph over the limit)

i explained to the lady from the dealership who rode with me what i wanted to do why. I expected a "NO!", but surprisingly, she complied and told me i could do all this as long as i didn't too far over the speed limit and drive normal for the first few minutes of the test drive, so she could judge my driving ability before she gave the OK to do my "test".

the point of that power test was to assess how much power the car had at certain RPMs to kind of get a feel for the car's power throughout the powerband. there was not one single part of the test where the mustang had more power, though it was pretty close at 5500RPM+. i did use the speedometer to see how fast i was accelerating instead of just relying on feel. the biggest difference in power between the two cars was between 2000-4000RPMs. this was where the mustang was really lacking, especially under 3000RPMs.

to keep the comparison as accurate as possible, i did this same power test in my camaro before and after i test drove the mustang. both cars were up to their optimal operating temperatures when these tests were done and the weather was the same with the same ambient temperature as well. i even used the same roads to conduct these tests, so i eliminated as many of the variables that i could.

[Stealthpanda]

Then you're a lot nicer than I. Hell I was pretty pointlessly test driving an L99 no more than 3 weeks ago. I just couldn't/wouldn't drive a Mustang. This isn't to say that the Coyote isn't an amazing upgrade over those silly 4.6s back in the day... or that the differences you felt between the V6s were DI vs SFI? I think the 3.7 is SFI... someone fill me in. Reviews are hard. I learned this too. Theres a fine gray line between favoritism vs 1 brand and true unbiased opinion. Cheers.

[07fx2]

I don't think the v6 is under powered cause it makes the mustang scoot for a v6. Its just fords recent motors likes to rev, and rev, and rev some more.

[NoWRX]

Originally Posted by Stealthpanda

If what Deki says is true, 2011's with a good driver Manual are running 13.4-13.7 (mids) and stock 2011's Manual Camaros were running what 14.1? Didnt look too much into it. That number sticks out though. (BOLD)For the 2012's is 18 HP .3-.4 tenths? Cheers.

Yeah, I call shenanigans on that. A whopping 18 extra hp isn't going to drop half a second off the quarter, sorry. Hell, Id be surprised if you could even feel that in the seat of your pants.

I'd still give a straight line race to the Mustang, 18 more hp or not. You're talking about power like its the end all be all, but you're forgetting the Camaro has an extra 300+ lbs to tug around too.

[Stealthpanda]

Originally Posted by NoWRX

Yeah, I call shenanigans on that. A whopping 18 extra hp isn't going to drop half a second off the quarter, sorry. Hell, Id be surprised if you could even feel that in the seat of your pants.

I'd still give a straight line race to the Mustang, 18 more hp or not. You're talking about power like its the end all be all, but you're forgetting the Camaro has an extra 300+ lbs to tug around too.

Nothin for nothin, it has to be an improvement. Been pretty well covered though. The weight is an issue I mentioned earlier. 300 lbs is alot, agreed. Why am I repeating myself? O_O

[brandonrr]

Originally Posted by NoWRX

Yeah, I call shenanigans on that. A whopping 18 extra hp isn't going to drop half a second off the quarter, sorry. Hell, Id be surprised if you could even feel that in the seat of your pants.

I'd still give a straight line race to the Mustang, 18 more hp or not. You're talking about power like its the end all be all, but you're forgetting the Camaro has an extra 300+ lbs to tug around too.

your argument only accounts for the peak HP numbers. that 305HP mark is at the very end of the RPM range and the mustang has much, much, less power in the lower RPMs than the camaro does. at the peak, there may only be a 18HP difference, but at the lower RPMs, that difference is waaay bigger. there is no denying that after driving both cars. i would even go as far as saying it feels like there is a 60-80HP difference at 2000-4000RPMs between the two cars. It really is that noticeable.

[Stealthpanda]

Yeah, my bad. My comments always referred to peak numbers. Not citing where each was, albiet 6400 rpms vs 6800 rpms or whatever the case might have been. Apologies, dont want to confuse with my lack of detail. Cheers.

[NoWRX]

Originally Posted by brandonrr

your argument only accounts for the peak HP numbers. that 305HP mark is at the very end of the RPM range and the mustang has much, much, less power in the lower RPMs than the camaro does. at the peak, there may only be a 18HP difference, but at the lower RPMs, that difference is waaay bigger. there is no denying that after driving both cars. i would even go as far as saying it feels like there is a 60-80HP difference at 2000-4000RPMs between the two cars. It really is that noticeable.

Yes, no kidding, that's the nature of the high revving mill in the 'stang. Looking at an '11 Mustang against an '11 Camaro, it appears the Camaro is only faster than the stang up until 30 mph. There's a half second difference at 60 mph, and that holds up to the quarter too. The rolling tests all show a significant advantage to he stang as well. Somehow, I doubt that 18 hp is going to decidedly change that with the '12.

I'm with Deki, I still have a really hard time believing that your bolt on v6 is destroying Mustangs when it's barely running what a stock V6 Mustang does. Does not compute.

[mcdoogle6969]

Oh boy...

[MichaelH]

Originally Posted by mcdoogle6969

Oh boy...

Haha now that's funny

[10camssl99]

lol nothing better than putting a little 87 on the fire lmao

[brandonrr]

Originally Posted by NoWRX

Yes, no kidding, that's the nature of the high revving mill in the 'stang. Looking at an '11 Mustang against an '11 Camaro, it appears the Camaro is only faster than the stang up until 30 mph. There's a half second difference at 60 mph, and that holds up to the quarter too. The rolling tests all show a significant advantage to he stang as well. Somehow, I doubt that 18 hp is going to decidedly change that with the '12.

I'm with Deki, I still have a really hard time believing that your bolt on v6 is destroying Mustangs when it's barely running what a stock V6 Mustang does. Does not compute.

i'm not the one claiming my "bolt on v6" is destroying mustangs....keep that in mind.

the 2012 camaro may "only" have 19 more HP than the 2010-2011, but the power kicks in sooner. if you were to look at the dyno graphs for the 2011 and then the 2012 camaro, you would see that the LFX engine hits the higher HP and torque numbers sooner than the LLT engine does.

i would even go as far as saying that i believe the 2012 camaro would beat the 2011-2012 mustang in the quarter mile and also the 1/4mile. going by both personal experience and the numbers and graphs i've seen, i would be pretty confident that i would beat an equally skilled driver in a 2011-2012 mustang in any sort of drag race. you also have to consider that the aluminum intake on the 2010-2011 camaro restricts the power quite a bit, due to it heating up the air that passes through it. people who own the 2010-2011 camaros have reported very noticeable increases in power after adding an isolator, which solves the hot intake issue.
on a side note, the 2011-2012 mustang has a composite intake as well, so during the Car and Driver showdown, the mustang did not suffer from hot intake like the camaro did.

what i would really like to see is Car and Driver doing another showdown between the mustang, camaro and challenger. the mustang and challenger have not had any performance changes since then and the camaro is running an entirely different engine with more HP, better powerband, and composite intake. i would be willing to bet good money that the camaro would come out on top of the 0-60 this time.

i also want to stress that i'm not trying to say the LFX engine camaro is better than the LLT. there are still things that are better about the LLT, such as up-gradable headers.

[Stealthpanda]

Its all relative. If the camaro with bolt ons/tune launches on the stock mustang who fell asleep at the tree, and the gap only becomes bigger until the 1/4 mile ends... id probably call that destroyed too. But that's driver issue, not car. Imho... cheers.