[VinnAY]

Originally Posted by ember1205

Unless you have actual data to back up every single vehicle ever produced and whether or not ANY failures encountered were ever traceable back to the break-in process, you can't make that claim. You're trying to "prove a negative", and that is quite literally impossible.

Your comparison to audio equipment isn't on par. Whether there's value in or not, the reality is that operating a loudspeaker in a matter that flexes the material of the speaker is somewhat akin to "softening" leather. Prove that softening the leather in a chair doesn't make it more comfortable and/or wear better over time. Again, you can't.

In the case of a car, we aren't trying to "wear in" flexible parts, so it isn't a good comparison.

Finally, it doesn't matter whether break-in is or isn't ever related to failure because it absolutely IS related to various aspects of operation that can be measured in other areas. As mentioned already, the MPG of my 2006 TL was far superior to that of the 2008 TL that owned. Identical cars right down to the paint color. The difference was that -I- broke the 2006 in and did it according to Acura's directions. Someone else broke in the 2008 and my guess is that it was NOT done in the same manner and that's why it suffered.

As far as dealers asking questions, they don't have to. The data is stored in the car. And, if you (or the previous owner in the case of buying used) agreed to all of the stupid privacy policies in the car with the different features, GM has been collecting that data over the life of the car and they absolutely WILL use it if they can to deny a warranty claim... Even claims that aren't related.

Hey everybody! Look! It's THAT guy.

[JasonGofast]

I mean the trusted engineers also let A8 shudder be a thing. I doubt not following the break in will have noticeable effects. If it does you wouldn't be able to prove whether it was because you followed the break in period or not.

I would still follow it. I followed the procedures very loosely. I definitely did WOT before 500 miles, but not like how I do it now at 4k. Warranty exists for a reason.

[Petrol Head]

Originally Posted by L8Apex

I think you're making some big assumptions, more than likely it was dimensional variations in parts and assembly rather than the first 500 miles by a different owner

As the owner of a 2009 Honda Accord EX-L V6 6 speed coupe since it had 2 miles on the odometer (~175,000 now), which has essentially the same engine in his TL, I’ll just say this:

I was easy on the car for that 500 miles, but Honda’s owners manual also states to leave the factory oil in as long as possible. The engine parts are coated at the factory and they want it in the engine as long as possible. So I waited till I was at absolute zero on my oil life indicator, approx 7500 miles, to do my first oil change.

Today I can drive it hard, shift through the gears at redline, and it doesn’t burn or leak a drop of oil while still putting out every one of the factory 260 hp. Might have even gained a pony or two over the years - the engine is strong as ever. All the while giving me 24 mpg.

Just sayin.

[HDRDTD]

This is one of those topics that are quite controversial with no clear answer.

One side believes the factory break-in procedures are valid and follow them (I'm in that camp)

Another side will cite MANY engine builders that are on the side of 'run it like you stole it' right from the beginning and the rings will seat much better. They build race engines all day long and aside from a short cam break-in period, the hammer it forever.

[Petrol Head]

Originally Posted by HDRDTD

This is one of those topics that are quite controversial with no clear answer.

One side believes the factory break-in procedures are valid and follow them (I'm in that camp)

Another side will cite MANY engine builders that are on the side of 'run it like you stole it' right from the beginning and the rings will seat much better. They build race engines all day long and aside from a short cam break-in period, the hammer it forever.

The race engine builders aren't considering long term. Race cars go balls out at 7500 RPM for 4 hours then get a full rebuild for the next race. I am in the camp, as I am sure you are, that proper break-in when a car is brand new will help ensure long lasting reliability and performance. I don't know if I'll ever hit 175,000 miles in the Camaro like I have with the Accord, but if I do I don't want to have oil leaks, burning, bad operation, and other issues that can come with poor break-in habits.

I followed the owners manual to a T on the Camaro and just passed the 1500 mile mark last week. It took me since Feb. when I bought the car with 30 miles on it. So happy to have it out of the way!!

Now if only covid didn't shut down my local track for the entire season

[ember1205]

Originally Posted by VinnAY

Hey everybody! Look! It's THAT guy.

Excuse me? WTF is that supposed to mean?

If you can't back up your "facts", then don't get mad when you're called out.

[DaveC113]

Originally Posted by MrChrisLS3

Keep in mind that it's more than just the engine you're breaking in. It's the entire drive line, the transmission, the differential, drive axles, all of it. A lot of moving parts with gears.

+1.

Gears need break in more than the motor.

If you look at Cessna's break-in recs for new motors, it has to be done hard to seat the rings, so this isn't folklore. I don't think we need to worry about it though, it's been done for us on a dyno, so the motor isn't much of an issue. But, gears wearing in together optimally in the rear end and trans can be an issue.

This also means engine builder's break-in will be different vs a complete car, when I've built new engines I've done a hard break-in with good luck, not going to redline immediately, but over the course of several pulls after it's warmed up.

Finally, the rings seating in modern cars has made some massive improvements and manufacturers seem to either make engines with a perfect seal so the motor never uses a drop of oil, or this fails and it goes through far too much oil. IDK exactly what's going on there, but it's done in the factory and may look much different from what we know about traditional engine break-in.

[ember1205]

Originally Posted by Petrol Head

As the owner of a 2009 Honda Accord EX-L V6 6 speed coupe since it had 2 miles on the odometer (~175,000 now), which has essentially the same engine in his TL, I’ll just say this:

I was easy on the car for that 500 miles, but Honda’s owners manual also states to leave the factory oil in as long as possible. The engine parts are coated at the factory and they want it in the engine as long as possible. So I waited till I was at absolute zero on my oil life indicator, approx 7500 miles, to do my first oil change.

Today I can drive it hard, shift through the gears at redline, and it doesn’t burn or leak a drop of oil while still putting out every one of the factory 260 hp. Might have even gained a pony or two over the years - the engine is strong as ever. All the while giving me 24 mpg.

Just sayin.

I remember LOTS of discussion threads on another forum about the oil... I did like you and left it until I was somewhere in that same mileage and my motor always ran buttery smooth. I remember taking an on-ramp to get on the highway... Even after merging into the right lane on the highway from the ramp, there was still an uphill grade for maybe around a mile. Nothing drastic, but you had to keep your foot on the gas to at least maintain speed and I will still accelerating to get up to highway speed. I had no idea how fast I was going and then I saw the speedo... almost 110 and you simply couldn't tell by any of the sound(s) from the car and it rode really smoothly as well.

I also remember the dealership telling me very pointedly to NOT change that oil until the car told me to for the reason of additives in the oil from the factory. And, honestly, it's one of the reasons that I was hesitant to change the oil in the Camaro before the 1500 mile mark as I wasn't sure if maybe there were additives in the oil that GM wanted to remain in there for a minimum period of time (it doesn't seem that's the case, though).

[RWT]

Originally Posted by ModernCamaroZ28Fan

If I begin to push my car (like ALOT) before break-in period is over. Would it damage my car, or void the warranty?

Is it guaranteed that something bad would happen, or is break-in period more like a friendly reminder that liability risks COULD happen?

It probably wouldn't void the warranty, (although GM can tell if you ran it hard during break in if they want to look, thank you big brother), and it probably wouldn't damage the car. Failure to follow the break in guidelines is NOT a guarantee something bad will happen. But again, why even take that chance when after the break in you can flog it all you want?

These questions always intrigue me.
Why wouldn't someone want to follow the recommended break in procedures? What is the benefit/gain from choosing to ignore/reject the procedures?

[RyanR623]

Originally Posted by ember1205

Excuse me? WTF is that supposed to mean?

If you can't back up your "facts", then don't get mad when you're called out.

TRIGGERED. It's just a forum, don't let your feelings get hurt

[ember1205]

Originally Posted by RyanR623

TRIGGERED. It's just a forum, don't let your feelings get hurt

Not triggered, and no hurt feelings. Zero value in that response by someone whose feelings were hurt because they got called out.

[RyanR623]

Originally Posted by ember1205

Not triggered, and no hurt feelings. Zero value in that response by someone whose feelings were hurt because they got called out.

There are zero facts for either points. There can't be. You can never know if damage was caused by improper break in or not. This argument could go on forever. I play it on the safe side, some may not. Who cares.

[caSStro18]

I think it depends on whether or not you plan on keeping the car for a long time or not. If its a car you plan to keep and enjoy for many years, a proper break-in according to the manufacturer's suggestions is a really easy thing to do. And, it doesn't take long to get to 1500 miles. If you plan to keep the car for only a short period of a couple years or so, I guess drive it hard from the start. I just feel bad for the next owner who may have to deal with issues. This is one of the main reasons I wanted to buy new, and especially not one that was a previous rental. You know those were not broken in properly!

[UnknownJinX]

I followed it(albeit not 100% perfectly) for the 1500 miles in the beginning FWIW.

Originally Posted by ember1205

I also remember the dealership telling me very pointedly to NOT change that oil until the car told me to for the reason of additives in the oil from the factory. And, honestly, it's one of the reasons that I was hesitant to change the oil in the Camaro before the 1500 mile mark as I wasn't sure if maybe there were additives in the oil that GM wanted to remain in there for a minimum period of time (it doesn't seem that's the case, though).

Meanwhile, the Track Preparation Manual says to change the oil at 500 miles. I did, as I was actually seeing some tiny metal speckles on the dipstick.

I don't think GM uses special break-in oil as Honda does.

Sent from toaster or something