[Cody6.2]

Originally Posted by SuperSound

Have you ever looked at the records on the C7 forum? Don't see any manuals running times lile the autos. You need to understand gearing is the key, not the fast shifting or consistency.

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My initial statement applied to far more than just the C7.

[wakespeak]

Originally Posted by DevonK

For those who think they'll use manual mode most of the time with the 8 speed auto and so will have the control and connection without the hassle of having to clutch, a word of caution based on experiences others have had with 8 speed autos.

I've been following the 2 series and M2 forums at 2addicts for quite a while. There are several former manual owners there who went for the highly-rated ZF 8 speed auto on their 2 series cars and came to regret it. Not because the ZF has any operational weaknesses, but because an 8 speed transmission leads them to have to shift too frequently for the process to be enjoyable - they wind up just letting the car do it automatically and then miss the driver involvement they had with their manuals.

^ this + driving over 50 in traffic is annoying to me with the eight speeds having very tall 7, 8th gears. Downshift 2 gears to pass, upshift, downshift 2 gears to pass, upshift.....

[Ragnar]

Speaking about a 7 speed manual , I hardly use 6 gears and when you are doing 70 to 75 it's ok if your just crusin. I wouldn't want or need 7 gears, extra lugging. I'm happy at a little over 24mph on the highway with a 6 speed! I'm just shifting into 3rd gear at 75 - 80 sometimes! I drive the manual because it is fun, plain and simple for me...

[jimmyj333]

Originally Posted by wakespeak

^ this + driving over 50 in traffic is annoying to me with the eight speeds having very tall 7, 8th gears. Downshift 2 gears to pass, upshift, downshift 2 gears to pass, upshift.....

Agreed!

[jimmyj333]

Originally Posted by SuperSound

Faster shifting isn't the only reason the auto is faster, gearing is also a big part. The launch on the A8 is much stronger. Check out these ratios

4.56 1st gear ratio on automatic, with 2.77 rear end ratio. It should launch good, and carry itself good even 2nd through 3rd and 4th with lower transmission gearing.

Mt 1st gear ratio = 3.01, axle ratio 3.73

[SS 1LE]

One of the biggest issues I have with the auto is the AFM. I hate that, and it makes the car sound like poop when it's on. Yes, you can tune it out, but I don't plan on tuning this car until I have it for a year or two...

[High Magnitude]

confirmed no active fuel managment on manual

[DDustiNN]

Originally Posted by whiteboyblues2001

Auto vs. Manual can be a very emotional issue. Many folks are old school and love to manually shift gears. They claim to be more connected to the car (even though pushing in the cluch technically disconnects the engine from the rest of the drive train). Others prefer the automatic because it is faster (usually) nowadays, or because they like the flexability of an automaic (they can be operated manually or automatically), or can't drive a stick.

Here is some info for those who are undecided:
1. The drivetrain of a car is not friction free, so it reduces the amount of HP and TQ at the wheel compared to the HP/TQ at the crank. Maunal transmissions rob you of less HP/TQ than automatics, but the difference has been shrinking for many years, and now is not much nearly as much of a difference.

2. Automatics can now shift gears significantly faster than any human using a manual.

3. It used to be that manuals were significantly faster (in 0-60 and 1/4 mile) than autos. Because of 1 and 2 autos are now faster.

4. Some automatics (like the Camaro) provide a manual mode so the driver shifts the car by pushing a button (the Camaro has paddle shifters on the steering wheel). So you can use manual mode when you want to shift manually, or automatic mode, when you want it to act like an automatic.

5. Automatics can have multiple shift points programs (the Camaro has this), so when you are in automatic mode, the car will upshift and downshift at different RPM's depending if you are in Touring Mode, Sport Mode, or Track Mode (or Snow/Ice Mode). So if you are driving in Track mode, the car will not upshift until you approach redline, but if you are in Touring mode, it will shift sooner. The manual is all up to you.

6. Some automatics (like the Camaro) also will not upshift as quickly when you are in Sport or Track mode. So let's say you are racing at the track. When you come to a turn, let off the gas, and hit the brakes, an older automatic would upshift. Then when you exit the turn, you are in the wrong gear. Then you have to wait for the car to downshift again while trying to extit the turn. The new autos, when in track mode (and to some extent Sport Mode), will sense the hard braking and turning, and assume you don't want an upshift. That way, when you exit the turn, you are in the right gear. The manual is all up to you.

7. Let's say you are at the track racing with a manual, and you enter a turn. You let off the gas, and hit the brake, and you need to downshift. When you depress the clutch, the RPM's drop, but when you chose a lower gear, you want the RPM's to be higher (that was the purpose for your downshift after all). When you let off the clutch, the engine slows the car down until the engine RPM's match the speed of the car for that gear, and continue to slow the car down until you hit the gas. For this reason, race car drivers (and advanced amateurs) will use their heel to depress the brake pedal, and use their toe to hit the gas pedal to increase RPMs so they match the speed of the car for that downshifted gear. This is called "heel toe" shifting. Modern manuals (like the Camaro) now have Active Rev Matching, so when activated, the engine will open the trottle to make the engine operate at the right RPM's for the gear you are shifting to, eliminating the need for Heel Toe shifting.

8. In the Camaro, the automatic costs more money (although we don't know how much yet.)

9. Manuals are a bit lighter generally, and are less complicated than automatics, but in practice, I have seen manuals needing more costly work than an auto. If you maintain your car well, but drive hard, you will need a new clutch in a manual sooner or later. To replace a clutch, you have to remove the engine, so it's not cheap. Autos don't have that issue.

10. Most automatics operate using a torque converter, which means there is no clutch, but uses fluid instead. Some automatics are now just a manual with an automatic shifting feature - these are called Dual Clutch Transmission (DCT) (sometimes called semi-automatic transmission) and shift faster than an automatic and have less reduction in HP/TQ to the wheels. The Camaro does NOT have this type of automatic.

11. The automatic usually gets slightly better gas mileage.

12. In the Camaro, the automaic will come with Active Fuel Management, that under certain conditions operates the engine on four cylinders instead of 8, giving you a little better MPG's on top of #11 above. Many folks don't like this feature, and want to disable it. In the new Camaro, it is disabled in some of the driving modes like Track (and possible Sport), but I am not sure yet which mode do and which modes don't.

These are some of the details that folks consider when deciding. Neither is right or wrong, just personal preference. Please let me know if I left anything out (I probably forgot a factor or two, but I am sure someone will point them out as well).

I have been on this site since before the gen5 released, and I have to say...

This is the best post I have ever seen regarding the differences between manual and automatic.

[Stex]

Originally Posted by High Magnitude

confirmed no active fuel managment on manual

But same mechanicals for both auto and stick V-8. GM said they tune out the AFM on the stick. So the stick V8 has the same AFM lifters etc. Will take miles to see if this is an issue as they were in the older AFM V8s.

[bhavyas]

Just to add on to whatever everyone has already said, I would like to give my 2 cents on this... If someone is undecided on which side to go(manual vs automatic)... I would like to say go with the manual ...for the following reasons:

1. The automatic maybe faster than the manual, but its faster by milliseconds... given that... you should not be able to tell the difference so much in your daily drive, unless you plan to take it on track very frequently or you are the racer type. Think about it! If you are either of those.. chances are ..you are still much better with the manuals and so you might be able to perform equally good with the manuals.
   
   
2. We are living in probably in last decade or so of manuals. With the advent of self driving cars (I personally hate them but I cant stop them)... in the next decade or so the face of automotive industry may change completely (I hope its not this thing that changes it)... This is probably the best and the last time you would get a chance to drive manuals and have fun...
   
   
3. Dual clutch automatic is here to stay and within the next couple of gens of camaro(or probably the next itself) it is going to be standard... when that happens, I am not sure if they would want to keep the manuals alive for the select few population. The stringent fuel and emission restricitions will make it almost impossible for the automakers to keep the manual alive..
   
   
4. Tesla has shown that it is not impossible to build good looking AND powerful electric cars. Model 3 is going to be a game changer just like Model S has been. Technology is moving so fast today, you never know there might be a guy in GMs lab right now actually working on an electric camaro.
   
   The direction in which the industry is going is not certain but its definitely not in favor of manuals...
   
   
5. Manuals cost lesser than automatics by $1500 . Sure they will require more maintenance on clutch, but thats only if you drive real hard or if you are just a very bad manual driver... I have a had manual car for almost 6 years now but the clutch is still good on it... the materials used now a days can accept good amount of wear and tear, so you shouldnt worry about this so much... atleast I dont...
   
   
6. Fuel economy... I would say depends alot on your driving style... I rented the new sonata once for my trip from SF to SD and got a measly 27mpg...and thats full highway. So the point is even if you own an automatic and are a conservative driver the difference is going to be very small. I know friends who drive the subaru wrx manual and still gets around 29mpg... the same as an automatic
   
   
7. Driving modes are great, but in manual you create your own driving mode... you decide when to shift.. thats probably the best thing for me!!!
   
   
8. The most important thing... both of your hands will be engaged... so no time to look into ur phone while driving..
   
   
9. It will keep you wide awake on road...

I am not a hater of automatic cars.. just that I do realize that the manual has only few years left..so doing my bit to save them..hahaha... #SaveTheManuals

[SuperSound]

Originally Posted by bhavyas

[LIST=1][*]The automatic maybe faster than the manual, but its faster by milliseconds... given that... you should not be able to tell the difference so much in your daily drive, unless you plan to take it on track very frequently or you are the racer type. Think about it! If you are either of those.. chances are ..you are still much better with the manuals and so you might be able to perform equally good with the manuals.

[*]Dual clutch automatic is here to stay and within the next couple of gens of camaro(or probably the next itself) it is going to be standard... when that happens, I am not sure if they would want to keep the manuals alive for the select few population. The stringent fuel and emission restricitions will make it almost impossible for the automakers to keep the manual alive..

[*]Fuel economy... I would say depends alot on your driving style... I rented the new sonata once for my trip from SF to SD and got a measly 27mpg...and thats full highway. So the point is even if you own an automatic and are a conservative driver the difference is going to be very small. I know friends who drive the subaru wrx manual and still gets around 29mpg... the same as an automatic

[*]Driving modes are great, but in manual you create your own driving mode... you decide when to shift.. thats probably the best thing for me!!!

1. Think you tenths of a second not milliseconds difference between M6 and A8 cars (see ATS-V and C7 for evidence of the divide between the two) If you are referring to the shift time, yes milliseconds is right. But even shift time isn't a big concern as much as the consistency of an auto.

2. The 8 speeds GM has are not DCT, they are hybrid torque converter units.

3. Be sure to compare 8 vs 6 speed transmission in terms of MPG. The double overdrive in the 8 speed units can usually give a couple MPG on highway on EPA tests. Real life can see bigger returns depending on driving conditions. The real story on the 6th gen is AFM and the 8 speed will likely make a 2-4mpg rating difference on the highway vs. the M6 with no AFM.

4.You can fully manual shift the auto if you choose too. You don't get the ability to skip gears like you would a manual of course.

[bhavyas]

Originally Posted by SuperSound

2. The 8 speeds GM has are not DCT, they are hybrid torque converter units.

3. Be sure to compare 8 vs 6 speed transmission in terms of MPG. The double overdrive in the 8 speed units can usually give a couple MPG on highway on EPA tests. Real life can see bigger returns depending on driving conditions. The real story on the 6th gen is AFM and the 8 speed will likely make a 2-4mpg rating difference on the highway vs. the M6 with no AFM.

4.You can fully manual shift the auto if you choose too. You don't get the ability to skip gears like you would a manual of course.

Yes the 8 speed is not DCT, but thats exactly what I am trying to say, that DCTs will rule the world of automatics in future... atleast thats my perception...

The camaro V6 does not come with the AFM, so in that case, I dont think the difference between the two mileage would be as big as 4mpg...

If you end up driving the paddle most of the time... I would just recommend go for the stick.. unless there is someone who is going to drive the car as well and does not know how to drive a manual...

[SuperSound]

Originally Posted by bhavyas

Yes the 8 speed is not DCT, but thats exactly what I am trying to say, that DCTs will rule the world of automatics in future... atleast thats my perception...

The camaro V6 does not come with the AFM, so in that case, I dont think the difference between the two mileage would be as big as 4mpg...

If you end up driving the paddle most of the time... I would just recommend go for the stick.. unless there is someone who is going to drive the car as well and does not know how to drive a manual...

DCTs will probably replace manuals agreem but a lot of people do not like them for non-performance cars. Look at all the complaints Ford had on the Fiesta and Focus. Think we are more likely see electric direct drive replace those sooner.

The LGX does have AFM, on manual and auto. But again we are talking a couple of mpg at best on highway.

Agree, but having an auto in stop and go traffic is probably a bigger plus than being able to full manual shift.

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[bhavyas]

Originally Posted by SuperSound

The LGX does have AFM, on manual and auto. But again we are talking a couple of mpg at best on highway.

Dint know about this... In that case will have to wait for the figures to come out...

Originally Posted by SuperSound

Agree, but having an auto in stop and go traffic is probably a bigger plus than being able to full manual shift.

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Totally agree on this one!!!