GM fined 35 million

[citabria7]

Originally Posted by jd10013

they will. they'll settle on a fine with the justice department like Toyota did and close the case. they'll have to make multimillion settlements with (at a minimum) the family of the 13 people they admit died because of the faulty ignition. they'll then have to fight off the occasional lawsuit from the other 300 crashes NTSB has said could be linked to the ignition issue. and since the ignition design has been changed, and recalls done; once they finish with their payouts (I'm guessing close to 2 billion) it will finally be over.

GM can weather 2 billion, but it could go a little higher. the justice department will seek a penalty relative to what GM can afford to pay.

It still is not over. My 2014 loaner Impala had the key flip to off while I was driving. Called GM. They were not interested in hearing about it.

[wakespeak]

Originally Posted by abaucom21

Last week read an article that generally recalls up this year for most brands. Think GM has recently recalled about 2.3-2.7 million autos. They fired two engineers and have hired an additional 35 people to review issues up to ten years old. Their new thinking is to recall vs just issuing service bulletins and waiting for their customers to report issues at dealerships, therefore the higher number of current recalls and expected higher number in the future. Hope the other brands start doing the same.

Does not mean GM products are having more issues. Just means they will be issuing fewer technical service bulletins the general public is not aware of, but will be more proactive by issuing recalls for even minor issues that might result in future problems.

Think this is great and new head of GM is being very proactive. Hopefully the days are past when a $1.50 part won't cause an injury or death because the bean counters thought it was cheaper to pay off a limited number of death and injury claims then it would cost them to issue a recall notice. If anything, this new GM recall process has given me more confidence in GM products.

Yes GM can no doubt emerge as a better company. Use this event as a way of kicking out the spreadsheet management in favor of visionaries and Oppenheimer types that sweat the details. Display confidence through being open and proactive. Stock values are more and more tied to maximized customer relationships than to dividends.

[jd10013]

Originally Posted by Muscle Car Lover

Pretty sure if they can make the timing match the "bankrupt" era they will get a pass through on lawsuits.

by law, a company can not be held liable for anything that happened before a bankruptcy filing. however, there are disclose laws with bankruptcy, and if it could be proven that GM withed the info about the ignition they would loose that shield. GM has not yet said if they're going to go that route or not.

[Evergreen6]

$35M is but a pittance for a company like GM. It was said that sum is the equivalent a single day's worth of revenue, and the fine supposedly wiped out profit for a single quarter's financial reporting period. Life will go on just fine at GM.

There's a fine line to walk with regards to laissez fair business practices and legislating and auditing every business decision that could affect safety. Corporations don't always do what is ethical; they don't have to. But, those kinds of decisions are hedges against stuff like this recent investigation. This bet didn't end well for GM.

For those too young to remember, look up the exploding GM C/K series pickup debacle from the 1980's. The fuel tanks were mounted between the frame rail and the bedside, and a direct impact to the side of the truck could cause the truck to explode. It killed a lot of people over a number of years. Reminds me very much of this latest investigation.

[Bonanza7]

Originally Posted by jd10013

by law, a company can not be held liable for anything that happened before a bankruptcy filing. however, there are disclose laws with bankruptcy, and if it could be proven that GM withed the info about the ignition they would loose that shield. GM has not yet said if they're going to go that route or not.

The guy who signed off on ignition switches has already been caught lying under oath. Perjury to cover for a company. Really bad.

[Norm Peterson]

Originally Posted by Bonanza7

The guy who signed off on ignition switches has already been caught lying under oath. Perjury to cover for a company. Really bad.

The next question is whether he did that completely on his own initiative or was he pressured or otherwise directed to do so by somebody else?


Norm

[citabria7]

Originally Posted by Norm Peterson

The next question is whether he did that completely on his own initiative or was he pressured or otherwise directed to do so by somebody else?


Norm

Good question. Probably get the Obama rope-a-dope trying to find out.

[chain777]

Originally Posted by Evergreen6

$35M is but a pittance for a company like GM. It was said that sum is the equivalent a single day's worth of revenue, and the fine supposedly wiped out profit for a single quarter's financial reporting period. Life will go on just fine at GM.

There's a fine line to walk with regards to laissez fair business practices and legislating and auditing every business decision that could affect safety. Corporations don't always do what is ethical; they don't have to. But, those kinds of decisions are hedges against stuff like this recent investigation. This bet didn't end well for GM.

For those too young to remember, look up the exploding GM C/K series pickup debacle from the 1980's. The fuel tanks were mounted between the frame rail and the bedside, and a direct impact to the side of the truck could cause the truck to explode. It killed a lot of people over a number of years. Reminds me very much of this latest investigation.

That 35 million dollar fine is only the tip of the iceberg. That was the maximum fine allowed by the NHTSA. In comparison, Toyota was fined a little over 32 million dollars for the "sudden acceleration" fiasco, and ultimately payed out of a billion dollars.

And, the 13 deaths being reported, are only the ones GM is admitting were a result of the defective ignition cylinders. There are many more fatalities that they haven't admitted to, so expect that number to climb.

[Rhyder]

Originally Posted by MLL67RSSS

Not condoning GM's response, or lack thereof, to the issue. But here are the facts for many of the 13 fatalities cited in the Federal investigation.

Star-Telegram Ed Wallace article:

http://www.star-telegram.com/2014/04...lity.html?rh=1

"Amber Marie Rose, 16, has a fight with her boyfriend at a party. Intoxicated, not wearing a seatbelt, she tears off doing 69 mph in a residential neighborhood, on the wrong side of the road — until she enters the cul-de-sac. She slams into a driveway curb and then into a tree.

Megan Phillips is driving at 71 mph on a rural Wisconsin road. She drifts off road and onto a driveway curb and goes airborne for 59 feet before crashing into a utility box and trees, killing her two unbelted passengers. Interestingly, Phillips blamed herself for the accident, until she heard about the recall. (If a non-running car had caused the accident, wouldn’t she said that from day one?)

Hasayan Chansuthus of Nashville, after drinking with her boyfriend, has a blood alcohol content of .19; driving 70 mph on the Interstate in the rain, she sideswipes a VW, sending her off the freeway into a tree.

Joey Harding, 19, drinking with friends in his mother’s garage, borrows his friend’s Cobalt at 3 in the morning. His blood alcohol content .12, he’s doing 85 in a 45mph zone with predictable results.

Ryan Quigley, 23, leaves a party with friends on a rural New York road in winter weather conditions; sliding down an embankment at 1 a.m., he ends up in the stream below. New York State Police blame the accident on road conditions, excessive speed and alcohol. Infuriated, local police arrest the three people who threw that party for serving alcohol to minors.

Christopher Hamberg, 18, Clearlake, Texas, driving on NASA Parkway at 4:30 in the morning, slams up against the median and rolls the Cobalt. Local police say he was doing only 45 mph, but it’s almost impossible to believe that’s fast enough to roll a car. (The reason I suggested strongly that Congress needs the Black Box data.) No word on alcohol in that case, but we do know he was not wearing a seatbelt.

Kelly Ruddy, 21, enters I-81 at an excessive speed, according to local police, wearing no seatbelt, and simply loses control of the vehicle.

Brooke Melton, 29, hydroplaning on a Georgia road in the rain, loses control of her vehicle.

These are seven of the high-profile media cases resulting in 10 fatalities, and only Brooke Melton was over 25 years old. In case you weren’t counting, at least four, possibly more, involved intoxication.


All seven involved high rates of speed, or unsafe speeds given the road conditions. At least seven weren’t wearing seatbelts, and at least five slammed into cars, medians or driveway curbs. Six happened at night — four verified as being after midnight.

[B]Here’s the point: If all seven of these accidents involved excessive speed, why does anyone think the ignition key had already fallen into the Accessory position — which would have turned the engine off? You can’t drive 69, 70, 71 or 85 mph, or roll your car, with the engine off: It’s got to be running. Which means there’s a reasonable possibility in the majority of these cases that what moved the ignition from Run to Accessory was the extreme physical impact of the accidents."

I do however think you can roll a car at 45MPH with the right, or should I say "wrong" conditions.

And with all the thread moves around here, still wondering why this "doesn't involve Camaros" thread is in the 5th gen Camaro general discussion forum.

I don't give a rats rear what other issues influenced the death or injury...if a known defect on a vehicle was even one of them then the company is liable....whos to say that the car losing control wasn't the final piece that caused the death, that if that hadn't happened they wouldn't of recovered?

I also think its lousy reporting and the reporter is pretty obviously bought and paid for.......

I mean unless they can prove that every single death and injury...every single one....was conclusively not caused by the car going out of control then they should get hammered....it doesn't matter if 99% of the cases get thrown out...if there's one single instance that is to much.....anything else, including this article, is simple misdirection and its criminal......

[citabria7]

Originally Posted by chain777

That 35 million dollar fine is only the tip of the iceberg. That was the maximum fine allowed by the NHTSA. In comparison, Toyota was fined a little over 32 million dollars for the "sudden acceleration" fiasco, and ultimately payed out of a billion dollars.

And, the 13 deaths being reported, are only the ones GM is admitting were a result of the defective ignition cylinders. There are many more fatalities that they haven't admitted to, so expect that number to climb.

Those plus the others from passenger seat airbag sensor failures in the Solstices, Skys and HHrs. Many, many reports of those sensors breaking, even from just riding on rough roads. Funny, isn't that the excuse GM used with the ignition switches for awhile? Don't drive our cars on rough roads?

[citabria7]

Originally Posted by Rhyder

I don't give a rats rear what other issues influenced the death or injury...if a known defect on a vehicle was even one of them then the company is liable....whos to say that the car losing control wasn't the final piece that caused the death, that if that hadn't happened they wouldn't of recovered?

I also think its lousy reporting and the reporter is pretty obviously bought and paid for.......

I mean unless they can prove that every single death and injury...every single one....was conclusively not caused by the car going out of control then they should get hammered....it doesn't matter if 99% of the cases get thrown out...if there's one single instance that is to much.....anything else, including this article, is simple misdirection and its criminal......

GM has a lot of paid bloggers trying to deflect criticism. Some are on this site, and other forums of the specific cars involved. They have a script to blame the drivers. Almost word for word on each site.

[Sweet Zness]

Originally Posted by Comrando

So people hang five pounds of keys off their ignition switch and their knee hits the keychain and the car turns off. Guess what? Turn the key back on!

I wonder what happens when they have a blow-out or run out of fuel.

Can you please link me to any of the people who were hurt due to this, showing there was actually 5 pounds do key chains. Or 4 or 3 or 2 or even 1 pound. I'll be waiting.

You also fail to recognize that it seems people didn't have problems with keys and all other car manufacturers. Including such "crap" companies like Kia or Honda or Hyundai.

Nor do you seem to even be willing to admit the culture of shame that hid these problems, and tried to sweep it under the rug.

But yeah let's blame the amount of keys. Seems logical to focus on that.

[Sweet Zness]

Originally Posted by TxBandit911

Also, none of this would be an issue if people would just learn how drive a vehicle. Doesn't matter if the air bags are shut off or not. Engine dies = Crash and die doesn't and never will make any sense...

If people were smart enough to operate the vehicles they own, no one would have even know about this crap...

Are you really trying to say that anyone who died in an accident that it was their fault for not knowing how to drive. Spin control in 5...4...3...2

[citabria7]

Originally Posted by Sweet Zness

Can you please link me to any of the people who were hurt due to this, showing there was actually 5 pounds do key chains. Or 4 or 3 or 2 or even 1 pound. I'll be waiting.

You also fail to recognize that it seems people didn't have problems with keys and all other car manufacturers. Including such "crap" companies like Kia or Honda or Hyundai.

Nor do you seem to even be willing to admit the culture of shame that hid these problems, and tried to sweep it under the rug.

But yeah let's blame the amount of keys. Seems logical to focus on that.

The 5 pound claim has been issued by the GM paid bloggers on numerous sites. They are reading from a script. Trying to blame the customer for their sloppy engineering