is royal purple a big deal?

[wbt]

Originally Posted by FastOil

HUH

most of this makes no sense.

Yep. Reason I did not respond. His point is a low grade oil is just fine to run in your engine as-long-as it does not void your warranty and meets minimum spec.

No thanks. I'll spend the small extra and consider it added protection for my large $$$ investment.

[duder4thgen]

Originally Posted by FastOil

HUH

most of this makes no sense.

Hey, I'm surprised an Amsoil dealer might criticize a post that could hurt their sales. But hey, if you'd like to debate a specific point(s) you feel I've gotten wrong, I'm right here and more than willing. I am human, I very well could be mistaken, I do know that facts would back up your sales pitch much better than sarcastic comments and smilies.

Originally Posted by wbt

Yep. Reason I did not respond. His point is a low grade oil is just fine to run in your engine as-long-as it does not void your warranty and meets minimum spec.

No thanks. I'll spend the small extra and consider it added protection for my large $$$ investment.

Besides some adjectives I don't agree with, I think you have a good grasp of the point I was getting across. Using a higher quality oil than your specific application calls for is a waste of money. Take your SS for example. With the mods you have in your signature, your engine is not going to produce the conditions necessary to cause any oil on the High Performance Specification list to not protect your engine, unless you don't follow the OLM's oil change interval or that CAI is making you run really, really rich.

Maybe you could explain where the benefit is in running $9/qt Amsoil when $5/qt Mobil 1 provides your engine all the protection it needs?

Unless you're going to run extended intervals, the UOA's that go along with them, and don't really care about your warranty, I just don't see it.

[FastOil]

if you noticed i dont have any sales threads on these forums,,, YET!
With that being said retail sales are not in my mission, we do mostly wholesale and shops with many shops around the nation and many vendors.

i am trying to educate and share with you all the data i have seen from first hand and from others ,,, iam not saying in any way that AMSOIL is the last bucket of gold in the field,, but i am saying that your American muscle car should be making sure that what you are using in your 30,000 thousand dollar plus investment is the bes of the best ,, hence will help you in reliability which is the most important thing.


i always back my claims with data, whether is oil analysis, race cars that show their engines when taken apart to prove the different products and to sho that AMSOIL has proven to be very well established and very competitive and giving you the best in quality.

just saying

Originally Posted by duder4thgen

Hey, I'm surprised an Amsoil dealer might criticize a post that could hurt their sales. But hey, if you'd like to debate a specific point(s) you feel I've gotten wrong, I'm right here and more than willing. I am human, I very well could be mistaken, I do know that facts would back up your sales pitch much better than sarcastic comments and smilies.



Besides some adjectives I don't agree with, I think you have a good grasp of the point I was getting across. Using a higher quality oil than your specific application calls for is a waste of money. Take your SS for example. With the mods you have in your signature, your engine is not going to produce the conditions necessary to cause any oil on the High Performance Specification list to not protect your engine, unless you don't follow the OLM's oil change interval or that CAI is making you run really, really rich.

Maybe you could explain where the benefit is in running $9/qt Amsoil when $5/qt Mobil 1 provides your engine all the protection it needs?

Unless you're going to run extended intervals, the UOA's that go along with them, and don't really care about your warranty, I just don't see it.

[2K05GT]

Originally Posted by FastOil

Do you run race gas, why is your lead so high at 71 PPM, also your iron and your calcium is up there, usually a good rule of thumb is that if one sees metals at double digits one must be looking into internals and why are they wearing.

your report is very well established, however comparing that data with cars at that milleage using the AMSOIL dominator there are many more benefits to be seen,
you can benefit fomr the high content of zinc and phos PPM 1400 +, cross hatch marks from honning still well established at 80K, TBN i actually see high 7s pouring out of the bottle at 14 running the oil well over 10K
i dont like the use of moly in the comercial sold oils, i preffer the real antiwear additives, it is a very well established pattern of moly in off the shelf oils.

BTW good report, but still supprised how well the muscle car community suppports the oil, i was expecting more of a penzoil support

I did run race fuel, Leaded a couple times, I was desperate and out of gas and the track only had 107. the Mustang does not have Tri-matal bearings so they do not contain lead.

I have 80K on the clock and Drag Race it every weekend for 4 years so just saying

[dmiller66]

The best way to protect your engine is through by-pass filtration and synthetic oils. I use Amsoil. I installed a by-pass system on my old car, the oil stayed clear/amber for the entire time I used it. The oil was not changed for 48,000 miles with zero problems. The only reason I took it off was so that I could install it on my Camaro. Oil doesn't wear out.

[FastOil]

Originally Posted by 2K05GT

I did run race fuel, Leaded a couple times, I was desperate and out of gas and the track only had 107. the Mustang does not have Tri-matal bearings so they do not contain lead.

I have 80K on the clock and Drag Race it every weekend for 4 years so just saying

that exaplins the lead, however iam still wondering about the high content of metals, rule of thumb analysis labs have is if they see double digits like those they flag and thats why iam really curouse to see the Blackstone labs did not flag it, but at the same time it doesnt suprise me from them and they are not a full blown lab like Oil Analyzers is.

[FastOil]

Originally Posted by dmiller66

The best way to protect your engine is through by-pass filtration and synthetic oils. I use Amsoil. I installed a by-pass system on my old car, the oil stayed clear/amber for the entire time I used it. The oil was not changed for 48,000 miles with zero problems. The only reason I took it off was so that I could install it on my Camaro. Oil doesn't wear out.

well you are crazy,,, but i respect you for that for trusting the fluid,,, SSO 0W30 which is also reccomended for the Camaro SS and non SS can go up to 35K or a full year,,, do the math and thats a bunch of money and time saved in oil changes.

the EA filter will also keep your oil nice and clean,,, many of my wholesale accounts come back saying that their oil stays much cleaner for longer periods with the EA filters.

[wbt]

Originally Posted by FastOil

well you are crazy,,, but i respect you for that for trusting the fluid,,, SSO 0W30 which is also reccomended for the Camaro SS and non SS can go up to 35K or a full year,,, do the math and thats a bunch of money and time saved in oil changes.

the EA filter will also keep your oil nice and clean,,, many of my wholesale accounts come back saying that their oil stays much cleaner for longer periods with the EA filters.

Using both EA filters and 5w-30 Amsoil on my Mustang and Camaro.

Dyno coming tomorrow.

[FastOil]

Originally Posted by wbt

Using both EA filters and 5w-30 Amsoil on my Mustang and Camaro.

Dyno coming tomorrow.

man you need to post up some pictures of your bypass set up so this comunity can see first hand what your are talking about, and your dyno sheets


GL on the dyno

[jbdj89]

Here is my response from royal purple!!!
Good Afternoon Mr. Bird,

The oil specified for your Camaro is a 5W-30 that has the API Starburst symbol on it. Also, the oil must meet the GM 4718M performance spec. All Royal Purple motor oils meet or exceed the performance requirements of GM4718M, and GM6094M. The GM 4718M spec is largely an oxidation testing sequence GM began using back in the mid to late 1990’s with the introduction of the C5 Corvette. The new design created some inherent issues with oil cooling. GM needed an oil which could handle higher temperatures for extended periods without a significant increase in the oxidation rate. In 360F Thin Film Oxidation Uptake (TFOUT ASTM D4742) testing, Royal Purple SAE engine oils exceed 1200 minutes before failure. Most synthetics, including GM4718M licensed Mobil 1, will typically reach failure in less than 500 minutes.

The GM 6094M specification is a low temperature cold cranking viscosity. The pumping viscosities specified by GM6094M are shown below. The Royal Purple pumping viscosities are shown for comparison. I have also attached the Royal Purple motor oil data sheet:

GM6094M:

For 0W-XX oils - 30,000 cP@ -40°C
For 5W-XX oils - 40,000 cP@ -35°C
For 10W-XX oils - 50,000 cP@ -30°C

Royal Purple:

For 0W-40 oils - 20,000 cP@ -40°C
For 5W-20 oils - 22,200 cP@ -35°C
For 5W-30 oils - 34,800 cP@ -35°C
For 5W-40 oils – 21,500 cP@ -35°C
For 10W-30 oils - 18,000 cP@ -30°C


Higher numbers indicate a thicker, or more viscous fluid. As can easily be seen, Royal Purple motor oils have much better cold flow (lower pumping viscosities) than required.

Even though Royal Purple motor oils meet or exceed the performance requirements of GM 4718M and GM6094M, we cannot list certification because the GM specs also require an API SM rating. We also can not show the API Starburst logo because we do not carry the API SM rating. We have held most of our motor oils back from API SM (most RP SAE motor oils are API SL) because of the lower amount of anti-wear additive allowed in API SM/ILSAC GF-4 oils. The reason for the restriction on anti-wear additive is that certain components of anti-wear additive were shown to cause premature degradation of catalytic converters. OEMs are now mandated by the EPA to warranty the emission system separately from the power train. Rudimentary experimentation showed certain anti-wear additives do in fact degrade catalytic converters; however, the anti-wear additive was applied directly to the core of the cats during the tests. If enough oil is consumed in the combustion chamber (i.e. through poor piston ring seal and/or leaking valve seals), there can be degradation in catalytic converter life. This is not an issue with Royal Purple motor oils used in a mechanically sound engine. The OEMs are willing to trade the longevity of the engine for a possibility of extending the life of the catalytic converters.

We do not agree with reducing anti-wear protection for the engine. For our customers who have vehicles under an OEM warranty that require API-SM rated oils, and have chosen to use Royal Purple API-SL oil, we offer a corporate warranty in the case that engine damage or failure is directly attributable to Royal Purple Oil. I have attached a copy of the warranty for your review.

In summary, Royal Purple motor oils are not currently warranty compliant for your Camaro. If strict warranty compliance is your primary concern, we may not be the best choice. However, if performance and protection are your primary concern, Royal Purple SAE 5W-30 (part #01530, quart bottle) would be an excellent choice.


Thanks for choosing Royal Purple and have a great day!


Best Regards,

Christopher Barker
Tech Services
Royal Purple, Inc.
1 Royal Purple Ln.
Porter, TX 77365
281-354-8600

[FastOil]

I dont want to get into a bashing pasing contest here.
however typical of RP or any other off the shelf oil not hard data ASTM testing to just typical my oil meets your GM specs,,, hey even dyno oil could meet specs however does it perform ??

I ask you to please share data with us, ASTM/lab testing in general, the type of testing that will show this community that your oil outperforms, in an attemps to educate this community and show them what is the best choice of oil for them and not what is the best choice for x type of company.

Originally Posted by jbdj89

Here is my response from royal purple!!!
Good Afternoon Mr. Bird,

The oil specified for your Camaro is a 5W-30 that has the API Starburst symbol on it. Also, the oil must meet the GM 4718M performance spec. All Royal Purple motor oils meet or exceed the performance requirements of GM4718M, and GM6094M. The GM 4718M spec is largely an oxidation testing sequence GM began using back in the mid to late 1990’s with the introduction of the C5 Corvette. The new design created some inherent issues with oil cooling. GM needed an oil which could handle higher temperatures for extended periods without a significant increase in the oxidation rate. In 360F Thin Film Oxidation Uptake (TFOUT ASTM D4742) testing, Royal Purple SAE engine oils exceed 1200 minutes before failure. Most synthetics, including GM4718M licensed Mobil 1, will typically reach failure in less than 500 minutes.

The GM 6094M specification is a low temperature cold cranking viscosity. The pumping viscosities specified by GM6094M are shown below. The Royal Purple pumping viscosities are shown for comparison. I have also attached the Royal Purple motor oil data sheet:

GM6094M:

For 0W-XX oils - 30,000 cP@ -40°C
For 5W-XX oils - 40,000 cP@ -35°C
For 10W-XX oils - 50,000 cP@ -30°C

Royal Purple:

For 0W-40 oils - 20,000 cP@ -40°C
For 5W-20 oils - 22,200 cP@ -35°C
For 5W-30 oils - 34,800 cP@ -35°C
For 5W-40 oils – 21,500 cP@ -35°C
For 10W-30 oils - 18,000 cP@ -30°C


Higher numbers indicate a thicker, or more viscous fluid. As can easily be seen, Royal Purple motor oils have much better cold flow (lower pumping viscosities) than required.

Even though Royal Purple motor oils meet or exceed the performance requirements of GM 4718M and GM6094M, we cannot list certification because the GM specs also require an API SM rating. We also can not show the API Starburst logo because we do not carry the API SM rating. We have held most of our motor oils back from API SM (most RP SAE motor oils are API SL) because of the lower amount of anti-wear additive allowed in API SM/ILSAC GF-4 oils. The reason for the restriction on anti-wear additive is that certain components of anti-wear additive were shown to cause premature degradation of catalytic converters. OEMs are now mandated by the EPA to warranty the emission system separately from the power train. Rudimentary experimentation showed certain anti-wear additives do in fact degrade catalytic converters; however, the anti-wear additive was applied directly to the core of the cats during the tests. If enough oil is consumed in the combustion chamber (i.e. through poor piston ring seal and/or leaking valve seals), there can be degradation in catalytic converter life. This is not an issue with Royal Purple motor oils used in a mechanically sound engine. The OEMs are willing to trade the longevity of the engine for a possibility of extending the life of the catalytic converters.

We do not agree with reducing anti-wear protection for the engine. For our customers who have vehicles under an OEM warranty that require API-SM rated oils, and have chosen to use Royal Purple API-SL oil, we offer a corporate warranty in the case that engine damage or failure is directly attributable to Royal Purple Oil. I have attached a copy of the warranty for your review.

In summary, Royal Purple motor oils are not currently warranty compliant for your Camaro. If strict warranty compliance is your primary concern, we may not be the best choice. However, if performance and protection are your primary concern, Royal Purple SAE 5W-30 (part #01530, quart bottle) would be an excellent choice.


Thanks for choosing Royal Purple and have a great day!


Best Regards,

Christopher Barker
Tech Services
Royal Purple, Inc.
1 Royal Purple Ln.
Porter, TX 77365
281-354-8600

[CAP'N B]

My self I don't care how good an oil claims it is if it doesn't have on the bottle that it meets GM specs I won't use it. Call me dumb, ignorant, crazy or whatever.

[2K05GT]

Originally Posted by FastOil

that exaplins the lead, however iam still wondering about the high content of metals, rule of thumb analysis labs have is if they see double digits like those they flag and thats why iam really curouse to see the Blackstone labs did not flag it, but at the same time it doesnt suprise me from them and they are not a full blown lab like Oil Analyzers is.

True, but besides the Lead the only high metals are ones that RP adds to their oil, the molybdenum is the Anti-wear and the magnesium is part of the ZDDP additive (witch contains Zinc mostly), it's considered to be the sacraficial metal that creates a layer on all metal parts the magnesium and Zinc gets destroyed first before the metal engine parts do. molybdenum is like graphite, it is used to reduce friction all oils add some molybdenum.

these 2 items are the additives that cause the Cat failure that the Rep talked about. But again if your not burning oil then the cats are safe, again I am at 81000 miles and my cats are fine, I just replaced my 02 sensors, they were acting up.

BTW, Amsoil also adds ZDDP to their Oil. (Zinc Dialkyl Dithio Phosphate)

http://zddp.net/

http://www.ttalk.info/Zddp.htm

http://www.zddplus.com/