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Old 04-26-2018, 08:39 AM   #5153
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I think that is a horrible miscalculation
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Lets keep it simple. ..
it has more power...its available power is like a set kof double Ds (no matter where your face is... theyre everywhere) it has the suspension to mame it matter...(
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Old 04-26-2018, 08:56 AM   #5154
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I think that is a horrible miscalculation
I think it is a very smart play on Ford’s part. Unlike FCA, who has done the same thing already, Ford has a built in contingency plan. They will still have Fiesta, Focus, and Fusion / Mondeo produced and available in Europe and China. Both those markets are larger than the US market and their cars are selling well there. Should the US market rapidly switch back to a sedan market (doubt it) they can divert product from Europe and/or China while they bring the US manufacturing capacity back on line. Sell what sells, the rest go to hell.
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Old 04-26-2018, 09:06 AM   #5155
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I think it is a very smart play on Ford’s part. Unlike FCA, who has done the same thing already, Ford has a built in contingency plan. They will still have Fiesta, Focus, and Fusion / Mondeo produced and available in Europe and China. Both those markets are larger than the US market and their cars are selling well there. Should the US market rapidly switch back to a sedan market (doubt it) they can divert product from Europe and/or China while they bring the US manufacturing capacity back on line. Sell what sells, the rest go to hell.
Yes smart as long as they design the cars to keep on meeting NA requirements so they could quickly reintroduce the models. Which with their One Ford strategy, I believe that will be done.

I don't think it will be like it was last decade when GM and Ford had the cars NA customers were flocking to after 2005, but they were not designed for NA.
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Old 04-26-2018, 09:40 AM   #5156
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I think the sedan market will depend on fuel costs
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Old 04-26-2018, 10:19 AM   #5157
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I think the sedan market will depend on fuel costs
Yeah, I remember when gas hit $3 in 2008... you couldn't give away a SUV. My neighbor had a diesel truck, it just sat on the street because he couldn't afford to drive it to work everyday!
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Old 04-26-2018, 10:40 AM   #5158
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Yes smart as long as they design the cars to keep on meeting NA requirements so they could quickly reintroduce the models. Which with their One Ford strategy, I believe that will be done.

I don't think it will be like it was last decade when GM and Ford had the cars NA customers were flocking to after 2005, but they were not designed for NA.
Problem with that is designing to US spec costs money, which they won't be recovering if they don't sell the cars in the US. The whole idea of dropping out of segments is to cut development costs.

Paring down the passenger car offerings makes sense. But only offering the Mustang & a version of the Focus that will be trying to disguise itself as a crossover is going too far, in my opinion. There should still be a midsizer in the lineup. Maybe make it a 'midsize +' so that its acceptable to the remnants of the full-size market who don't want a crossover.

And the small car should be a small car. Anyone who actually wants a small crossover can buy one. But the ones that want a car ... want a fricken car! I bet half the Bolt's sales problem is because its a car pretending to be a crossover, and as a result its body style appeals to approximately nobody.
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Old 04-26-2018, 11:00 AM   #5159
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Originally Posted by Martinjlm View Post
I think it is a very smart play on Ford’s part. Unlike FCA, who has done the same thing already, Ford has a built in contingency plan. They will still have Fiesta, Focus, and Fusion / Mondeo produced and available in Europe and China. Both those markets are larger than the US market and their cars are selling well there. Should the US market rapidly switch back to a sedan market (doubt it) they can divert product from Europe and/or China while they bring the US manufacturing capacity back on line. Sell what sells, the rest go to hell.
I get they can bring it back quickly, isn't that essentially what's happening with the ranger? It's the global ranger and now its coming here. I am sure in in automotive timelines that's moving fairly quickly, but consumer wise I don't think it is.

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Problem with that is designing to US spec costs money, which they won't be recovering if they don't sell the cars in the US. The whole idea of dropping out of segments is to cut development costs.

Paring down the passenger car offerings makes sense. But only offering the Mustang & a version of the Focus that will be trying to disguise itself as a crossover is going too far, in my opinion. There should still be a midsizer in the lineup. Maybe make it a 'midsize +' so that its acceptable to the remnants of the full-size market who don't want a crossover.

And the small car should be a small car. Anyone who actually wants a small crossover can buy one. But the ones that want a car ... want a fricken car! I bet half the Bolt's sales problem is because its a car pretending to be a crossover, and as a result its body style appeals to approximately nobody.
This ^
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Originally Posted by 72MachOne99GT View Post
Lets keep it simple. ..
it has more power...its available power is like a set kof double Ds (no matter where your face is... theyre everywhere) it has the suspension to mame it matter...(
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Old 04-26-2018, 12:09 PM   #5160
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Shaffe, yes the Ford Ranger is a very good example of that. So is the Chevy Trax / Buick Encore which actually happened a lot faster than Ranger. Ranger did have some elements that had to be re-engineered for US that dragged out development timing.

Now that I think of it, the previous generation of Canyon and Colorado were fast adaptions of a truck popular in Brazil. Both GM & Ford had written off the mid sized truck market because full sized was so profitable at marginally more cost. Now both are back in the game. Could also happen with sedans.
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Old 04-26-2018, 12:17 PM   #5161
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Shaffe, yes the Ford Ranger is a very good example of that. So is the Chevy Trax / Buick Encore which actually happened a lot faster than Ranger. Ranger did have some elements that had to be re-engineered for US that dragged out development timing.

Now that I think of it, the previous generation of Canyon and Colorado were fast adaptions of a truck popular in Brazil. Both GM & Ford had written off the mid sized truck market because full sized was so profitable at marginally more cost. Now both are back in the game. Could also happen with sedans.
That is what I thought. Hopefully they have them engineered to be quick to market.
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Originally Posted by 72MachOne99GT View Post
Lets keep it simple. ..
it has more power...its available power is like a set kof double Ds (no matter where your face is... theyre everywhere) it has the suspension to mame it matter...(
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Old 04-27-2018, 12:26 AM   #5162
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Yeah, I remember when gas hit $3 in 2008... you couldn't give away a SUV. My neighbor had a diesel truck, it just sat on the street because he couldn't afford to drive it to work everyday!
I would like 3 dollars a gallon now. Gas is close to 3.50
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Old 04-27-2018, 07:28 AM   #5163
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Opportunity for GM. Trim the lineup but don't eliminate sedans. The ones that stay, increase fleet sales.
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Old 04-27-2018, 07:33 AM   #5164
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Yeah, I remember when gas hit $3 in 2008... you couldn't give away a SUV. My neighbor had a diesel truck, it just sat on the street because he couldn't afford to drive it to work everyday!
But that was 2008, when SUV meant Tahoe, Explorer, Durango, Suburban. Now there are CUVs like Trax, EcoSport, Cherokee, Compass that are capable and get 30+ mpg. Those are the ones that are eating sedans lunch. They sell almost as fast as they land on the dealers lots. They have more usable interior space than comparable sedans, and they have a high ride height / view of the road that today’s drivers like.

When GM can make a vehicle that looks as good as a Terrain or Equinox, power it with a1.5L engine getting over 30 mpg, and better people and hauling capability than a Malibu, and it can actually get out of its own way, that’s a license to print money.
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Old 04-27-2018, 10:04 AM   #5165
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Opportunity for GM. Trim the lineup but don't eliminate sedans. The ones that stay, increase fleet sales.
I'd keep at the very least Cruze and Malibu. Maybe even keep Impala rolling as long as possible for fleet.
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Old 04-27-2018, 12:30 PM   #5166
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I'd keep at the very least Cruze and Malibu. Maybe even keep Impala rolling as long as possible for fleet.
Ford and GM are both car companies. Ford is also a brand. GM has 4 domestic brands. For this discussion it is better to look at Ford as a brand.

Ford brand will have two cars...one sporty, one family oriented.

Chevrolet brand will likely have 3 or 4 cars....one luxury sport, one sport, one mid-sized, one small

Buick brand will likely have two cars, one large, one mid-sized

Cadillac brand will likely have 2 to 4 cars. My money is on 3. A 3-Series competitor, a 5-Series competitor and a 7-Series Competitor. Might be part of the reason JDN is not there. He may have been pushing for 4 or 5.

Dodge brand is already down to two (one sporty, one family / all-purpose)

Chrysler is down to one.
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