What's Wrong With My Car? (Slow Starts/Dies)[FIXED]

[Jayjellyfish212]

I would check the grounding wires also just for a piece of mind. When I did the engine bay clean up (make her pretty under hood etc.) I noticed on these cars that there is about 15 ground wires tapped down to 3-4 ground wire spots on the frame on the passenger side in the engine bay located behind the heat shield by the wheel well area. That area is a dirt trap and wires get corroded there. If you follow the wires from the fuse box back to that area you will see that about 15 ground wires feed to that area then are spliced together down to 3-4 then bolted down. My car had only 11,500 miles on it when I did mods and upon the removal of that heat shield to expose the wire patterns, the ground wires were coated in all kinds of junk. There is about 3-4 areas with tons of ground wires behind that heat shield cover. I did have a few electrical glitches with the car before I cleaned those ground wires up. This may not be your problem but its worth a piece of mind to check it out and clean them up. If you DD your car they will be coated in grime.

Does the service stabilitytrak message stay on? If so that is a pain in the ass and the car will act up in all kinds of strange ways. That would need dealer attention or will eventually leave you only able to do 35 mph because the engine will go into reduce power mode.

[khater]

i only had this problem once i get e85 @cold start :/

[Bamaguy]

I have the same issue but mine appeared after an engine rebuild, header install, etc. Cold starts are ok... hot or warm starts not so good. After discussing with builder and tuner and research here, I am replacing the starter with a PowerMaster starter. Hopefully this will resolve the issue. Additionally, I replaced battery after the rebuild and the hot/warm start issue did not go away. Prior to the rebuild there was no issue.

[Welker2]

Originally Posted by Bamaguy

I have the same issue but mine appeared after an engine rebuild, header install, etc. Cold starts are ok... hot or warm starts not so good. After discussing with builder and tuner and research here, I am replacing the starter with a PowerMaster starter. Hopefully this will resolve the issue. Additionally, I replaced battery after the rebuild and the hot/warm start issue did not go away. Prior to the rebuild there was no issue.

With the headers, you might also want to consider a heat shield wrap for the starter, something like pictured below. Did this on the '79 Camaro we had after experiencing starter problems following the installation of headers ... never had the problem again

[Dmpsix]

I need to replace my starter soon as well.

What's a good starter to get for these cars? OEM?

[Low Saturn]

I had the same exact symptoms about a year and a half ago. Everyone said is was probably not the starter.

Checked and double checked everything else it could possibly be.

It ended up being the starter.

I took it apart after replacing it and it looked burned inside. Heat definitely affects these starters.

[MrChrisLS3]

Kind of ahead scratcher for sure. Two things that get my attention are no CEL yet stabilitrak message. I don't know enough about these systems yet to know exactly what that means.

Some questions though

Did this start happening suddenly, or has it been progressive over time?

You mentioned in one scenario that when the car does start, it runs rough. Is this consistent or intermittent, as in sometimes it runs rough, and sometimes it runs well?

You said it only does this on warm start, so on cold start, it starts right up, runs fine, no drama? Is there any difference in the way the car runs when it gets to temp (closed loop)?

I agree that typically, a warm start issue is the starter. However, a failing starter should not effect how the engine runs after start up.

Same with battery. The one thing that I might check about the battery is the air hose, to make sure it is connected and clear.

Of course checking the connections is good to do, especially if this came on more suddenly. Something might have happened to the power or ground connection on the starter, speed bump, road debris, etc.

Check plug wires, as one might have gotten burned by exhaust. Only showing up on warm start due to the magic of heat expansion or something like that. A coil pack could be another reason. The thing about these systems is that they effect emission checks, so the absence of a CEL almost eliminates them...almost, same with O2's. However, the issue occurring in closed loop (warm) and not in open loop (cold) is suspicious for these items.

The other part is fuel. Check the fuel pressure, cold start vs warm start. A failing fuel pump can cause symptoms like this, and get progressive over time. It can start out as intermittent rough idle, running, etc. The only way to really check it is fuel pressure when it occurs.

Anyway, these are e few things that come to my mind. If you have a good dealer in your area, or a good performance shop with a tech II scanner, they might be able to hook it up and see what's going on in real time as well.

[camguynj]

Originally Posted by Low Saturn

I had the same exact symptoms about a year and a half ago. Everyone said is was probably not the starter.

Checked and double checked everything else it could possibly be.

It ended up being the starter.

I took it apart after replacing it and it looked burned inside. Heat definitely affects these starters.

What hdrs do you have?

[Low Saturn]

Originally Posted by camguynj

What hdrs do you have?

Just the manifolds that came from the factory.

[camguynj]

Originally Posted by Low Saturn

Just the manifolds that came from the factory.

Hmmm, how many miles on the car when the problem started?

[Low Saturn]

Originally Posted by camguynj

Hmmm, how many miles on the car when the problem started?

It was doing since the day I bought it 12/13/2013 with 45K miles. Bought it used and just thought thats how they were. Until a little over a year later the symptoms progressed to the point that it concerned me.

One of these days I may see if theres a way to direct air to the starter location to help with cooling.

[Homeless Man]

Originally Posted by MrChrisLS3

Some questions though

Did this start happening suddenly, or has it been progressive over time?
I remember it happened suddenly at a gas station and then stopped for a while and now it's back and no signs of getting less or stopping.

You mentioned in one scenario that when the car does start, it runs rough. Is this consistent or intermittent, as in sometimes it runs rough, and sometimes it runs well?
Everytime that scenario happens with the service stabilitrac it runs rough and stays like that until I turn the car off and restart it. It was kind of cool actually because the pops/crackles were loud and it would pop when I shift sometimes.

You said it only does this on warm start, so on cold start, it starts right up, runs fine, no drama? Is there any difference in the way the car runs when it gets to temp (closed loop)?
Yea on cold starts no problem although I did watch a video with someone that put a new starter in their Camaro and it starts quicker than mine but I think mine has always been like this. No problems driving while up to temp either

I agree that typically, a warm start issue is the starter. However, a failing starter should not effect how the engine runs after start up.

Voltage is good while running.

[camguynj]

Originally Posted by Low Saturn

It was doing since the day I bought it 12/13/2013 with 45K miles. Bought it used and just thought thats how they were. Until a little over a year later the symptoms progressed to the point that it concerned me.

One of these days I may see if theres a way to direct air to the starter location to help with cooling.

Stock manifolds possibly could have burnt out the starter, but maybe the prior owner had long tubes but removed them. Do you know the flash count? If more than one then it was tuned and probably had long tubes.

[Low Saturn]

Originally Posted by camguynj

Stock manifolds possibly could have burnt out the starter, but maybe the prior owner had long tubes but removed them. Do you know the flash count? If more than one then it was tuned and probably had long tubes.

I've seen no evidence that the previous owner ever modified the car in any way. I've done all the maintenance, installed the cat back exhaust as well as everything else done to my car. Plus he took it to the dealer for all maintenance. If he did something questionable that would of voided the warranty, I'm sure it would of been noted.

I'm sure the stock manifolds played a part of overheating the starter. After a year an a half, its already acting like the previous starter did when I bought the car. I would think that tubular headers would cool off a lot faster than the cast manifolds. After shutting off the engine for a short amount of time, its seems like the starter sits there and cooks in the radiant heat from the manifold. Thats probably why the car will restart normally right after driving, but after it sits a few minutes, then its hard to start.