08-29-2016, 09:01 AM | #29 |
Drives: 2014 2SS/RS 1LE Join Date: May 2013
Location: Charlotte NC
Posts: 977
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The problem I see when instructing Novices at our regional SCCA events is that many have made extensive modifications to their cars in order to go fast but they didn't know what they were doing and the car is an absolute mess. The parts either do not work as they believe they do, they are set up wrong or they got bad advice without knowning. Now they have wasted thousands of dollars on modifications that make everything more difficult and they are discouraged and upset over the entire thing. Or the modifications have placed them into a category where they are the only driver in their class at the regional level or their car is totally uncompetitive and they will never come close to winning and that is important to them. All of these cases lead to driver frustration and ultimately they quit and never come back.
I don't think we are at odds in our thinking, but you are assuming that new drivers are making intelligent decisions on their modifications. If that is the case then I don't see the harm, but the reality in most situations is different and they end up with an expensive mess that could have been avoided with some education and a more gradual immersion into the sport. Some SCCA rules may contribute to these issues and again it is an information thing. I also think that SCCA has made some changes to their rules to accommodate this with the introduction of the CAM (Classic American Muscle) class and I think they would be well served to also make one for imports with the same basic rule set as CAM. The issue with the CAM model is that it gets very expensive very quickly especially if someone is trying to make a non optimum car fast. This is why I love the Stock classes since it keeps investment relatively low and that is why I encourage people to start there and as they grow into the sport they can decide to move to a different class if they wish and intelligently build that fast car they want to drive. I have only run in F-Street, and my car is bone stock with the exception of using Hankook RS3s instead of the stock Goodyears, neither of which are the best tire available for competition. Despite that disadvantage at our last event I was able to squeak out a win against a guy from a neighboring region with a well prepped S550 who runs at our events 3-4 times a season and beats everyone by a wide margin. He also competes at Nationals every year, autocrosses just about every weekend and he was running Bridgestone RE-71r's. And while I started with a car that is good for autocross I believe the reason I was able to win by just over 1 tenth this time was because of lots and lots of seat time over the past 2 years and not because of mods of which I have none. Because I am racing on a budget my only planned change is switching to the RE-71r tire (when I can afford them) now that they make them in my size and see where that takes me. Also if I decide to make other changes to the car I now have a good knowledge base and practical experience to guide me on what needs to be changed.
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08-29-2016, 09:22 AM | #30 | |
Drives: Camaro Justice Join Date: Jun 2007
Location: Virginia
Posts: 20,174
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08-29-2016, 09:28 AM | #31 | |||
Drives: Camaro Justice Join Date: Jun 2007
Location: Virginia
Posts: 20,174
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These guys know what they are doing. They knew what they wanted their 5th Gens to do.
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08-29-2016, 09:29 AM | #32 |
corner barstool sitter
Drives: 08 Mustang GT, 19 WRX Join Date: Jul 2012
Location: Eastern Time Zone
Posts: 6,990
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Thanks, Egon.
On the matter of an import car counterpart to CAM . . . wasn't the whole point of the Street Touring category to bring in owners of sporty import cars that were lightly modified but at least supposedly fully street-legal? I'm looking back 15 years or so here. Norm
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'08 GT coupe 5M (the occasional track toy)
'19 WRX 6M (the family sedan . . . seriously) |
08-29-2016, 10:02 AM | #33 | |||
corner barstool sitter
Drives: 08 Mustang GT, 19 WRX Join Date: Jul 2012
Location: Eastern Time Zone
Posts: 6,990
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Norm
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'08 GT coupe 5M (the occasional track toy)
'19 WRX 6M (the family sedan . . . seriously) |
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11-15-2017, 02:16 PM | #34 | |
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sorry to jack this thread but... Pete what would you suggest if car is a 2015 with stock sway bars ridetech 2 coil ovesr same tire sizes currently on it -2.4 total front camber but have had real issues with under steer coming out of the apex during autoX thanks
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CCW sp16a track set, BTR stage 3 cam and kooks longtubes with high flow catsLocks@7.5 degrees castor and radius arm inserts, Ride Tech 2coilovers JDP upper control arm bushings BMR lower knuckle bushing Bo White throttle body3.91 gears Spohn del-sphere toe link and trailing arms Prothane subframe bushings
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11-27-2017, 08:43 AM | #35 |
Drives: Camaro Justice Join Date: Jun 2007
Location: Virginia
Posts: 20,174
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We start with a smaller front or larger rear sway bar. The JPSS 32mm rear bar is obviously my first choice.
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11-28-2017, 08:02 AM | #36 |
Cone Killer
Drives: 2012 SS Join Date: Dec 2013
Location: St. Albans, West Virginia
Posts: 832
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What are your toe settings? If the car has conservative toe in front and rear, it won't have eager turn in. I did an event with about 0.1 degrees front toe in each side, and a little more out back, and the car did not like to change direction. I basically zeroed the toe, and it was a whole new car the next event. Running about -2.3f -1.3R camber for reference. I also have the 5mm stagger in bar size Pete was talking about, ss bar up front, 1le bar out back.
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2012 Camaro SS - Sold
Selling off my remaining wheels, tires, 27mm front sway bar, and MGW shift knob. Get them out of my house before my wife puts me out! |
11-28-2017, 08:54 AM | #37 | |
Drives: Camaro Justice Join Date: Jun 2007
Location: Virginia
Posts: 20,174
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01-13-2019, 01:20 AM | #38 | |
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refound this thread Since that time Justice Pete you set me up same way and its a lot more car now!!! going crazy waiting on spring to cross it against the nearest city club again for the first time since the swaybar,caster locks and aluminium inserts and your alignment, great toread again. I thought I should get alignment advice again but now reading about the hard decel pointed feel above, it is what my car now does we are talking hard breaking and minute corrections required as the weight transfers forward and starts to almost search for turn in
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CCW sp16a track set, BTR stage 3 cam and kooks longtubes with high flow catsLocks@7.5 degrees castor and radius arm inserts, Ride Tech 2coilovers JDP upper control arm bushings BMR lower knuckle bushing Bo White throttle body3.91 gears Spohn del-sphere toe link and trailing arms Prothane subframe bushings
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