Clearcoat failure - is it inevitable for an outdoor car?

[nUcLeArEnVoY]

I've got four bad things going for my Camaro...

• It's parked outdoors
• It's black
• It's in South Florida
• It's my daily driver

The only good thing I've got going for it is a strict and thorough maintenance schedule. I wash once a week with a two-bucket, two merino-wool mitt grit guard method (takes me two hours because before I do the paint, I do the engine bay, trunk jambs, and inner wheels), interior detail every other week, glaze/wax once a month, strip w/Dawn and seal/glaze/wax once every 3 months, clay twice a year and polish with a fine-cut polish once a year. All in all, there is usually never any one point in time where my car doesn't have wax on it.

I always hear that other than a garage, nothing protects your car better than a properly-applied coat of wax, but sometimes I question the credibility of that remark when considering what I got going against me.

I honestly don't know if I plan on owning this car for a long time. I could upgrade to a better Camaro, I could start a family and have to get rid of it, I could start a family and afford to be able to store it, I could do a lot of things... but if it's one of those involving keeping the car, what are the chances of a very strict waxing regimen protecting my paint over the long haul? Or am I just wasting my time? In a few years, I plan on moving out of here to a home with a garage, so this question may be moot.

[Gr8ride]

I've got four bad things going for my Camaro...• It's parked outdoors• It's black• It's in South Florida• It's my daily driverThats me, too...Tomorrow morinig Im going to wash with Dawn, then Porter/Adams the hell out of the car all morning or all day for that matter. Then after that I think Ill wash every two weeks and Wax once a month, Ill polish and Porter maybe every 3 months or as needed. Man I wish I had a garage..

[kiteman]

don't know why the clear coat would fail, but there are some flaws in your process.

1. dawn is terrible for your car. it dries out parts of your car and is unnecessary for stripping paint. if your polishing your car you polish has a cutting agent in it; that cutting agent is stripping any wax, so no reason to use dawn.

3. only polish when necessary, not on a schedule. polishing removes clear coat, so if you ever ran out of clear coat or had clear coat failure, this would be your one and only reason.

2. washing your car a lot is not good for your paint believe it or not. you induce swirls which causes the need for more frequent polishes...defer to #2 from above. i do a 5/10 day schedule for washing. if it's been 10 days since you last washed, wash the car...but only if the forecast for the next 5 days does not call for rain. i'll also wash a day after it rains if the forecast again doesn't call for rain in the next 5 days.

polish it when you need to, wash when it is practical and carefully, and seal/wax it every other month or every 3 months depending on what wax/seal you are using. ain't nothing else you can do, except avoid parking under trees to avoid bird crap and/or tree sap.

[Adam's Polishes]

Originally Posted by nUcLeArEnVoY

I've got four bad things going for my Camaro...

• It's parked outdoors
• It's black
• It's in South Florida
• It's my daily driver

The only good thing I've got going for it is a strict and thorough maintenance schedule. I wash once a week with a two-bucket, two merino-wool mitt grit guard method (takes me two hours because before I do the paint, I do the engine bay, trunk jambs, and inner wheels), interior detail every other week, glaze/wax once a month, strip w/Dawn and seal/glaze/wax once every 3 months, clay twice a year and polish with a fine-cut polish once a year. All in all, there is usually never any one point in time where my car doesn't have wax on it.

I always hear that other than a garage, nothing protects your car better than a properly-applied coat of wax, but sometimes I question the credibility of that remark when considering what I got going against me.

I honestly don't know if I plan on owning this car for a long time. I could upgrade to a better Camaro, I could start a family and have to get rid of it, I could start a family and afford to be able to store it, I could do a lot of things... but if it's one of those involving keeping the car, what are the chances of a very strict waxing regimen protecting my paint over the long haul? Or am I just wasting my time? In a few years, I plan on moving out of here to a home with a garage, so this question may be moot.

So long as you keep up on your maintenance theres really no reason to think your clear coat would fail. It take a good amount of abuse/neglect to get to that point and it sounds like you have a good system in place to keep it protected.

2 suggestions I would make - stripping and re-detailing every 3 months isn't gonna hurt anything, but it might largely be wasted effort. Generally I tell people that 1-2x per year is all you'll need for major 'overhaul' details. With your regiment I'd say maybe replace waxing with a sealant. The higher detergent resistance and melting point would offer you better protection for longer periods of time.

I don't see anything to be concerned about so long as you stay on top of that routine.

Originally Posted by kiteman

don't know why the clear coat would fail, but there are some flaws in your process.

1. dawn is terrible for your car. it dries out parts of your car and is unnecessary for stripping paint.

Absolutely wrong. Theres nothing strong enough in dawn to dry anything out on your car to the point it would be of any concern. The ONLY areas it would be somewhat debatable is on trim (exterior rubber, plastic, etc) but assuming you're properly detailing the car the trim will be dressed after each stripping so unless the person is simply neglecting to maintain the areas theres zero concern.

I believe that original dawn has a pH of somewhere between 8 or 9... only a tick or 2 off of neutral. Its not the paint melting acid a lot of people make it out to be. Its effective for stripping wax b/c its a degreaser to an extent.

The same task can be accomplished if you were to mix APC with a neutral car wash (my preferred method of wax stripping) all it takes is a mixture of something slightly off neutral to strip wax. If something is capable of stripping wax it doesn't make it bad for your paint or trim or mean it would excessively dry anything out.

Heck, most tap water from public utility sources is in that same range (8) due to chlorination. So in theory dawn isn't all that much more apt to dry your paint than average water from your hose, its that fact that it foams, clings, and degreases that makes it the better choice.

Originally Posted by kiteman

if your polishing your car you polish has a cutting agent in it; that cutting agent is stripping any wax, so no reason to use dawn.

While this is partially true (the act of claying and polishing will remove wax or sealants) the problem comes in from that 'dead' wax clogging foam pads and rendering them less effective/causing dusting, etc. The cutting ability of a pad is dictated by its pore size and structure, buy relying on the pad/polish to do the removal of old products means that product then cloggs the pores of the pad rendering it less effective and less able to provide the needed 'cut' to accomplish its job.

By stripping first you remove this from the equation and extend the usable time a pad has on a paint correction.

Originally Posted by kiteman

3. only polish when necessary, not on a schedule. polishing removes clear coat, so if you ever ran out of clear coat or had clear coat failure, this would be your one and only reason.

Agreed. Polish when needed, not on a schedule. In between do all you can to prevent swirls so that polishing needs are less frequent.

Originally Posted by kiteman

2. washing your car a lot is not good for your paint believe it or not. you induce swirls which causes the need for more frequent polishes...defer to #2 from above. i do a 5/10 day schedule for washing. if it's been 10 days since you last washed, wash the car...but only if the forecast for the next 5 days does not call for rain. i'll also wash a day after it rains if the forecast again doesn't call for rain in the next 5 days.

I agree with the philosophy of washing when you can to reduce the times you need to wash (if that makes any sense LOL) but don't forget that washing does remove potentially harmful things from the surface of the paint. Bird bombs, sap, fallout, etc that are sitting on the wax coat should be addressed frequently and quickly to prevent them from causing damage. In these cases the potential of wash induced swirls is far less heinous a problem than etching from contamination thats been allowed to sit on the surface for too long. Especially in direct sun/high heat/etc. which will speed the rate at which these things 'eat' thru the wax or sealant and act on your clear coat.

[Iwantone2]

Dang, kiteman must not buy Adam's Polishes...

[CamaroDreams07]

To answer your question: No.

[nUcLeArEnVoY]

Thanks for the input, guys. That’s a relief. The context in which I asked was for the very long term, which is why I was worried that it would be the inevitable end of any car that is kept outdoors. I’m talking 10-15 years down the road, but this is all in the hypothetical situation it’s still even outdoors by then, or in my possession for that matter.

As for polishing, yes, it should be kept to a minimum, but I have my washing technique down so well that I induce hardly any swirl marks and the ones that I do add I knock out with my yearly polish. All I use is Adam’s Fine Machine – will that really do that much damage once a year? Lmao.

So Dylan, you’re recommending I just stop using wax altogether and use sealant, period? I use wax mostly to give a better shine and to somewhat “trap” the extra depth the glaze gives it. I use MSS, Brilliant Glaze, and then Buttery Wax in that order during the every-3-month regimen. Machine Super Sealant provides an amazing shine, but Buttery Wax is a bit better, which is why I do that. I guess what I could do is use Machine Super Sealant every month, top it with the glaze, and end it there. When I top the glaze with Buttery Wax, is it really “trapping it” underneath to keep it there longer or is that all smoke and mirrors?

[CamaroDreams07]

Originally Posted by nUcLeArEnVoY

Thanks for the input, guys. That’s a relief. The context in which I asked was for the very long term, which is why I was worried that it would be the inevitable end of any car that is kept outdoors. I’m talking 10-15 years down the road, but this is all in the hypothetical situation it’s still even outdoors by then, or in my possession for that matter.

As for polishing, yes, it should be kept to a minimum, but I have my washing technique down so well that I induce hardly any swirl marks and the ones that I do add I knock out with my yearly polish. All I use is Adam’s Fine Machine – will that really do that much damage once a year? Lmao.

So Dylan, you’re recommending I just stop using wax altogether and use sealant, period? I use wax mostly to give a better shine and to somewhat “trap” the extra depth the glaze gives it. I use MSS, Brilliant Glaze, and then Buttery Wax in that order during the every-3-month regimen. Machine Super Sealant provides an amazing shine, but Buttery Wax is a bit better, which is why I do that. I guess what I could do is use Machine Super Sealant every month, top it with the glaze, and end it there. When I top the glaze with Buttery Wax, is it really “trapping it” underneath to keep it there longer or is that all smoke and mirrors?

If you want to wax on top of your MSS, then you aren't hurting anything (this is not true of all sealants though). The amount of protection you're adding with that wax is pretty negligible but if you feel it helps the look, then go for it. I think Dylan was just saying make sure you have some sealant on there, period.

I think you're definitely going about this as well as you possibly could, assuming you want to stick to just one line of products. It's kind of funny, when it comes to detailing, the people who worry about whether they're doing a good enough job are the ones who end up having nothing to worry about.

[nUcLeArEnVoY]

Originally Posted by CamaroDreams07

If you want to wax on top of your MSS, then you aren't hurting anything (this is not true of all sealants though). The amount of protection you're adding with that wax is pretty negligible but if you feel it helps the look, then go for it. I think Dylan was just saying make sure you have some sealant on there, period.

I think you're definitely going about this as well as you possibly could, assuming you want to stick to just one line of products. It's kind of funny, when it comes to detailing, the people who worry about whether they're doing a good enough job are the ones who end up having nothing to worry about.

Truer words have never been spoken on this subject.

[buzzy56]

Thanks Adams for providing such a through explanation of the detailing do's and dont's.Your response here has encouraged me to buy some of your products during the winter months so that I can try them out when I get my car out of hibernation.Hopefully your company will be running some specials on starter kit's in the upcoming months.

[Adam's Polishes]

Originally Posted by nUcLeArEnVoY

So Dylan, you’re recommending I just stop using wax altogether and use sealant, period? I use wax mostly to give a better shine and to somewhat “trap” the extra depth the glaze gives it. I use MSS, Brilliant Glaze, and then Buttery Wax in that order during the every-3-month regimen.

Ah... I didn't see that you were using MSS already. Stick with what you're doing there.

I'd recommend doing a refresh coat of Buttery every wash or every other wash... keeping that layer built up means that the MSS under it will last longer.

Kind of like adding protection to your protection.

Originally Posted by CamaroDreams07

It's kind of funny, when it comes to detailing, the people who worry about whether they're doing a good enough job are the ones who end up having nothing to worry about.

SO very true.

Originally Posted by buzzy56

Thanks Adams for providing such a through explanation of the detailing do's and dont's.Your response here has encouraged me to buy some of your products during the winter months so that I can try them out when I get my car out of hibernation.Hopefully your company will be running some specials on starter kit's in the upcoming months.

No problem. Glad to help... have a happy new year and hit me up when you're ready to pick some stuff up.

[cugino]

i've been using dawn for years. i like the fact that it removes a little wax each time. most people overwax anyway. my wife's trailblazer ss is black. i follow this procedure. when the car was brand new i compounded it with a d/a buffer and polishing pads using the finest grade 3m compound. i hand polished it and finished with 3m syntetic liquid wax. i only wash when dirty, never wax more than once a year and have used this method on all my cars for as long as i can remember. only exception is before syn wax used mothers or meguiars. her car is an 07 and looks like it just rolled out of the show room. i also live in south florida. in lieu of a garage, buy a good quality cover. when i had more cars than fit in my garage that's what i did. my wife's family has been in the auto body business for 2 generations. i've been working in the shops, taking care of paint for 45 years as my 2nd job. never had any issues with paint except after buying a car that someone messed up before me. then i may go to a stronger compound the 1st time, but always used the same products. most car wash products leave a greasy, wax residue perfect for swirl marks to develop. then the sun bakes them in to the wax and you have a much bigger problem. sometimes less is more, the simplest, basic products work as well or better than some specialty items. glass is one exception. never use windex in fla. especially. use only auto glass cleaner available in finishmasters or any auto body supply. disclaimer, just my 2 cents, not to be taken as professional advice. good luck.

[scythezo6]

As long as you take care to properly wash when needed and keep the paint protected using wax or sealant I don't think you have to worry. I'm scared of this too because my last 2 cars developed that "dry skin" effect on the clear coat after about 4 years (DDs parked outside) BUT I also didn't know about all these tips and tricks I learned from C5.com when I had those cars.