Camaro5 Chevy Camaro Forum / Camaro ZL1, SS and V6 Forums - Camaro5.com
 
JUICEDMOTORSPORTS
Go Back   Camaro5 Chevy Camaro Forum / Camaro ZL1, SS and V6 Forums - Camaro5.com > Engine | Drivetrain | Powertrain Technical Discussions > Camaro V8 LS3 / L99 Engine, Exhaust, and Bolt-Ons


Reply
 
Thread Tools
Old 05-16-2008, 09:28 AM   #15
3whiterag
GM Powertrain Retired
 
3whiterag's Avatar
 
Drives: 67SS350, 87 IROC L98, 96SS ver
Join Date: Jan 2007
Location: Niagara, Canada
Posts: 352
Quote:
Originally Posted by radz282003 View Post
Wow; this is pretty cool news. I'm eager to hear/read what the details of this engine are. It doesn't sound like it's going to make it into Camaro at launch, so I wonder what Father meant about forgetting what we know...

'Rag - I'm glad that you got the "C" taken care of. I've lost many family/friends to that horrible bug and I wouldn't wish it on my worst enemy. I just heard there is a guy who is a broadcast engineer who has actually developed a machine that can tune into certain C-cell frequencies that can actually destroy the cells by burning them up, with the help of Nano cells that are being developed. Regardless, I'm glad that has been corrected for you.

Isn't technology great?!

Thank you Sir!!
3whiterag is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 05-16-2008, 09:30 AM   #16
Sphinx002
 
Drives: .
Join Date: Apr 2008
Location: .
Posts: 196
I can't wait to see what they have cooked up. Direct Injection I'd say is 100% penciled in, but the rest.....ooohhh I love surprises. Now I have something to trade the Z/28 I'm buying next year in for. Happy happy joy joy.
Sphinx002 is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 05-16-2008, 10:20 AM   #17
3whiterag
GM Powertrain Retired
 
3whiterag's Avatar
 
Drives: 67SS350, 87 IROC L98, 96SS ver
Join Date: Jan 2007
Location: Niagara, Canada
Posts: 352
I am feeling rather
3whiterag is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 05-16-2008, 10:50 AM   #18
asrapid
 
asrapid's Avatar
 
Drives: Stratus
Join Date: Jan 2008
Location: Croatia
Posts: 75
Quote:
Originally Posted by Dragoneye View Post
All of them. It it the Generation 5 V8 engines. Just like generation IV replaced all the Generation III's. It's a new engine design incorporating Direct Injection and some other goodies.
It won't replace all of them. V6 will still be here . Also according to rumors GM is developing new v6 with turbochargers and over 400 hp so this engine can also find its way in future camaro maybe.
And what if LS9 or LSA is in top model? I don't think that gen V will come with superchargers/turbochargers in first year of introduction. Yes later we will probably see gen V with DI, vvt and superchargers ..but i don't think that when Gen V comes it will immediately be used instead of LS9 or LSA engine .I know it will replace ls3 and l98 but i don't think it will replace lsa and ls9 ..not in beginning..and one of this engine might end up in top model.
There probably will be direct injection and VVT in future gen V. I'm not so sure about 3 valve heads like there was earlier rumors.
asrapid is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 05-16-2008, 11:00 AM   #19
Mr. Wyndham
I used to be Dragoneye...
 
Mr. Wyndham's Avatar
 
Drives: 2018 ZL1 1LE
Join Date: Jan 2007
Location: Buffalo, NY
Posts: 31,848
Send a message via AIM to Mr. Wyndham
Quote:
Originally Posted by asrapid View Post
....
You know what I meant. A v6 isn't a V8, silly!

The LS9 and LSA, are one of a kind engines. We won't be seeing that kind of Horsepower out of GM for a long time after those two; sad but true.

The new V8's are designed to produce similar to current V8's (excluding the LS9) power more efficiently. So, smaller displacement = same power with DI, and VVT, etc; but better mpg.
__________________
"Keep the faith." - Fbodfather
Mr. Wyndham is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 05-16-2008, 11:22 AM   #20
asrapid
 
asrapid's Avatar
 
Drives: Stratus
Join Date: Jan 2008
Location: Croatia
Posts: 75
Quote:
Originally Posted by Dragoneye View Post
You know what I meant. A v6 isn't a V8, silly!

The LS9 and LSA, are one of a kind engines. We won't be seeing that kind of Horsepower out of GM for a long time after those two; sad but true.

The new V8's are designed to produce similar to current V8's (excluding the LS9) power more efficiently. So, smaller displacement = same power with DI, and VVT, etc; but better mpg.
Well GM could use mild boost on gen V.Like bmw use on their V8 TT..you can say what you want but if rumors are correct and new V6 TT will have as much HP as it is rumored to have (around 430 hp for cadillac instead of v8) i don't see problem using that kind of engine also in camaro.
asrapid is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 05-16-2008, 11:36 AM   #21
Mr. Wyndham
I used to be Dragoneye...
 
Mr. Wyndham's Avatar
 
Drives: 2018 ZL1 1LE
Join Date: Jan 2007
Location: Buffalo, NY
Posts: 31,848
Send a message via AIM to Mr. Wyndham
Quote:
Originally Posted by asrapid View Post
Well GM could use mild boost on gen V.Like bmw use on their V8 TT..you can say what you want but if rumors are correct and new V6 TT will have as much HP as it is rumored to have (around 430 hp for cadillac instead of v8) i don't see problem using that kind of engine also in camaro.
You still need a V8 somewhere. But I agree, I like the sounds of that new V6 engine.
__________________
"Keep the faith." - Fbodfather
Mr. Wyndham is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 05-16-2008, 06:21 PM   #22
shadowed_Stranger
WAITING!
 
Drives: 97 V6 5spd
Join Date: May 2008
Location: Florida
Posts: 236
Quote:
Originally Posted by Dragoneye View Post
You still need a V8 somewhere. But I agree, I like the sounds of that new V6 engine.
+1

I mean I am all ofr more power and effeciency, but If all I wanted was fuel efficiency and speed I would ride my motorcycle everywhere. V8 until I die!
shadowed_Stranger is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 05-16-2008, 06:50 PM   #23
DGthe3
Moderator.ca
 
DGthe3's Avatar
 
Drives: 05 Grand Am GT
Join Date: Jul 2007
Location: Niagara, Canada
Posts: 24,888
Send a message via MSN to DGthe3
Quote:
Originally Posted by shadowed_Stranger View Post
+1

I mean I am all ofr more power and effeciency, but If all I wanted was fuel efficiency and speed I would ride my motorcycle everywhere. V8 until I die!
Well . . . there is at least one custom bike shop, possibly more, that make V8 powered motorcycles. Best of both worlds for ya!
__________________
Note, if I've gotten any facts wrong in the above, just ignore any points I made with them
__________________
Originally Posted by FbodFather
My sister's dentist's brother's cousin's housekeeper's dog-breeder's nephew sells coffee filters to the company that provides coffee to General Motors......
........and HE WOULD KNOW!!!!
__________________

Camaro Fest sub-forum
DGthe3 is online now   Reply With Quote
Old 05-16-2008, 11:20 PM   #24
LS9CamaroSS
 
LS9CamaroSS's Avatar
 
Drives: Cavalier RS
Join Date: Mar 2008
Location: Jordan, NY
Posts: 569
does anyone else hope that with the gen V engines the push-rod will be dead? i'm hoping that an OHC or DOHC engine with 4vpc comes out so we can have better breathing... i doubt the CTS engine would be able to hit it's hp number with out the 4vpc set up...
LS9CamaroSS is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 05-17-2008, 12:36 AM   #25
DGthe3
Moderator.ca
 
DGthe3's Avatar
 
Drives: 05 Grand Am GT
Join Date: Jul 2007
Location: Niagara, Canada
Posts: 24,888
Send a message via MSN to DGthe3
Quote:
Originally Posted by LS9CamaroSS View Post
does anyone else hope that with the gen V engines the push-rod will be dead? i'm hoping that an OHC or DOHC engine with 4vpc comes out so we can have better breathing... i doubt the CTS engine would be able to hit it's hp number with out the 4vpc set up...
i respectfully disagree. The power curve of a pushrod is better. they are simplier and therefore cheaper to repair/upgrade. The engine weighs less and takes up a smaller space. The ZR1 from the early 90's had an aluminum DOHC engine. it weighed as much as the standard iron block engine. I've also heard that some fuel economy tricks work much better with pushrods than with ohc/dohc.

The most direct comparisson of DOHC vs OHC engines I can think of is the LS3 vs the V8 for the new M3. Both are released within a year of each other and have a similar power output. The LS3 makes 16 more hp, but it makes 125 ft lbs more torque, weighs ~20 lbs less, and should give a couple mpg better fuel economy for a similar car. It has a lower redline which should reduce wear. Fewer parts to break. Near as I can tell, the LS3 is superior in almost every real way. Unless you want to talk about hp/L or number of valves, but those things don't seem to help the dohc make enough power to beat the good 'ole pushrod.
__________________
Note, if I've gotten any facts wrong in the above, just ignore any points I made with them
__________________
Originally Posted by FbodFather
My sister's dentist's brother's cousin's housekeeper's dog-breeder's nephew sells coffee filters to the company that provides coffee to General Motors......
........and HE WOULD KNOW!!!!
__________________

Camaro Fest sub-forum
DGthe3 is online now   Reply With Quote
Old 05-17-2008, 12:47 AM   #26
LS9CamaroSS
 
LS9CamaroSS's Avatar
 
Drives: Cavalier RS
Join Date: Mar 2008
Location: Jordan, NY
Posts: 569
Quote:
Originally Posted by DGthe3 View Post
i respectfully disagree. The power curve of a pushrod is better. they are simplier and therefore cheaper to repair/upgrade. The engine weighs less and takes up a smaller space. The ZR1 from the early 90's had an aluminum DOHC engine. it weighed as much as the standard iron block engine. I've also heard that some fuel economy tricks work much better with pushrods than with ohc/dohc.

The most direct comparisson of DOHC vs OHC engines I can think of is the LS3 vs the V8 for the new M3. Both are released within a year of each other and have a similar power output. The LS3 makes 16 more hp, but it makes 125 ft lbs more torque, weighs ~20 lbs less, and should give a couple mpg better fuel economy for a similar car. It has a lower redline which should reduce wear. Fewer parts to break. Near as I can tell, the LS3 is superior in almost every real way. Unless you want to talk about hp/L or number of valves, but those things don't seem to help the dohc make enough power to beat the good 'ole pushrod.
i once again disagree with you... the flatter torque curve of an OHC engine is the advantage of it... it makes the engine smoother and it is also easier to tune IMO... The higher revving engines normally make more power and the notion of "wear" is different from a pushrod to an OHC engine... the reason an OHC engine is capable of revving higher is because the lifter is shorter therefor reducing the wear on the cam and the other components in the setup. If the BMW engine is getting more hp/l then it is more efficient and thus if it was the same size as the 6.2L LS3 which engine do you think would make more power? Hands down the OHC engine is better have to seen that the original ZR-1 still holds world records IMO it is the best production vehicle to come off the Chevrolet lines...

"Although the ZR-1 was extremely quick (0-60 mph in 4.6 seconds, and onto 180+ mph), the huge performance of the LT5 engine was matched by its robustness. As evidence of this, a stock ZR-1 set a number of international and world records at a test track in Fort Stockton, Texas on March 1, 1990, verified by the FIA (Fédération Internationale de l'Automobile), including seven new international records:

* 100 miles (160 km) at 175.600 mph (282.601 km/h)
* 500 miles (800 km) at 175.503 mph (282.445 km/h)
* 1,000 miles (1,600 km) at 174.428 mph (280.715 km/h)
* 5,000 km (3,100 mi)}} at 175.710 mph (282.778 km/h) (World Record)[citation needed]
* 5,000 miles (8,000 km) at 173.791 mph (279.690 km/h) (World Record)
* 12 Hours Endurance at 175.523 mph (282.477 km/h)
* 24 Hours Endurance at 175.885 mph (283.059 km/h) for 4,221.256 miles (6,793.453 km) miles (World Record)[citation needed]

These records remain unbeaten today by any production car, including both the Corvette C5 and C6 Z06s.[citation needed]"

that is from this link if you want to read more... http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Chevrolet_Corvette_C4#ZR-1

and another thing... i'm going to guess the BMW at the same displacement would get better MPG before things such as AFM came into play... and if BMW did an AFM set up with this engine it'd own the chevy engine... you have seen the HP/MPG numbers for all the ECOTEC engines right? those are all DOHC set ups. just because the engine grows by 4 cylinders doesn't mean the science changes completely...
LS9CamaroSS is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 05-17-2008, 01:58 AM   #27
DGthe3
Moderator.ca
 
DGthe3's Avatar
 
Drives: 05 Grand Am GT
Join Date: Jul 2007
Location: Niagara, Canada
Posts: 24,888
Send a message via MSN to DGthe3
Quote:
Originally Posted by LS9CamaroSS View Post
i once again disagree with you... the flatter torque curve of an OHC engine is the advantage of it... it makes the engine smoother and it is also easier to tune IMO... The higher revving engines normally make more power and the notion of "wear" is different from a pushrod to an OHC engine... the reason an OHC engine is capable of revving higher is because the lifter is shorter therefor reducing the wear on the cam and the other components in the setup. If the BMW engine is getting more hp/l then it is more efficient and thus if it was the same size as the 6.2L LS3 which engine do you think would make more power? Hands down the OHC engine is better have to seen that the original ZR-1 still holds world records IMO it is the best production vehicle to come off the Chevrolet lines...

and another thing... i'm going to guess the BMW at the same displacement would get better MPG before things such as AFM came into play... and if BMW did an AFM set up with this engine it'd own the chevy engine... you have seen the HP/MPG numbers for all the ECOTEC engines right? those are all DOHC set ups. just because the engine grows by 4 cylinders doesn't mean the science changes completely...
When I think of engine size, I tend to think of how big of a box you need for it, not displacement. And I meaure efficiency with mpg, not hp/L. I just pick those because they are more of a bottom line. A model airplane engine makes crazy hp/L but that don't mean much on its own. Absolute power is more important when looking at the entire car. An engine is there to move the car down the road, not to make impressive numbers on a piece of paper. Thats my take anyway.

And for fuel economy, to the best of my knowledge neither the BMW nor the LS3 (corvette/crate version) has any advanced fuel saving techniques. Also, while the ecotecs get good hp/mpg numbers, those same stats are better for gen IV V8's. The highly efficient Cobalt XFE 148 hp/31 mpg combined = 4.77. The powerful 2L turbo in the Solstice GXP is 260 hp/24 mpg=10.8. The L76 in the G8 GT 361 hp/20 mpg = 18.05. LS7 Corvette makes a mockery of this stat. 505/20 = 25.25

I'm not sure that fuel economy for the BMW vs GM @ same size would be as lop sided as you say. European performance cars aren't that well known for fuel economy. And only under rare circumstances do bigger engines get more efficient. I would anticipate that an M3 with a 6L engine would get 16 mpg combined or less. Compare that to the G8 @ 20. Now, a 6L BMW engine would be making roughly 600 hp.

I'm sleepy now. I have probably made countless errors in my above post. If so, consult my sig.
__________________
Note, if I've gotten any facts wrong in the above, just ignore any points I made with them
__________________
Originally Posted by FbodFather
My sister's dentist's brother's cousin's housekeeper's dog-breeder's nephew sells coffee filters to the company that provides coffee to General Motors......
........and HE WOULD KNOW!!!!
__________________

Camaro Fest sub-forum
DGthe3 is online now   Reply With Quote
Old 05-17-2008, 03:01 AM   #28
asrapid
 
asrapid's Avatar
 
Drives: Stratus
Join Date: Jan 2008
Location: Croatia
Posts: 75
It is possible to produce DOHC V8 which weight and have as much HP and torque as ohv engine (like 6.2 l ls3 or even ls7 engine) like the one from amg 6.2l v8 . But this engine is very expensive. It probably cost more then a some middle version of the camaro will cost if not even more.Also there was talk of 3 valves per cylinder on smallblock but i don't think we wwill see it.
There was rumors that gen V could be DOHC (after ULTRA v8 was cancelled) but i doubt it.
asrapid is offline   Reply With Quote
 
Reply

Thread Tools

Posting Rules
You may not post new threads
You may not post replies
You may not post attachments
You may not edit your posts

BB code is On
Smilies are On
[IMG] code is On
HTML code is Off

Forum Jump

Similar Threads
Thread Thread Starter Forum Replies Last Post
I'm not sure if I'll buy a 5th Gen. Camaro Moose 5th Gen Camaro SS LS LT General Discussions 68 06-13-2009 05:18 PM
If the El Camaro makes it to production.... Silverado General Automotive + Other Cars Discussion 8 02-21-2008 10:17 AM
Gotcha! 'Gen V' Engine Details... DOHC! LSxcellent Camaro V8 LS3 / L99 Engine, Exhaust, and Bolt-Ons 28 10-10-2007 03:23 PM


All times are GMT -5. The time now is 08:43 PM.


Powered by vBulletin® Version 3.8.9 Beta 4
Copyright ©2000 - 2018, vBulletin Solutions, Inc.