Clutch Slipper

[dreksnot]

I ran across curious device - a manual or digital clutch slipper. Anyone try one of these things and how well do they work?

[sinisterZL1]

Do you have any info on this clutch slipper?

[dreksnot]

Originally Posted by sinisterZL1

Do you have any info on this slipper clutch?

I installed the BangShift Billy clutch slipper with the LPE CTAP as the pedal position reader of the OEM pedal sensor. The concept is good. I don't think I'm getting a timely position signal from the OEM clutch switch so I think I'm going to have to install a mechanical switch (somehow) for the pedal and ditch the CTAP.

Me, being me, added to the complexity and installed a delay timing circuit to incorporate into the timing of the master switch holding and releasing the clutch.

What the clutch slipper is:
It is a manifold with a solenoid installed inline between the master and slave cylinder. A controller, in this case is able to be adjusted via an Android/iPhone with Bluetooth, can set the delay the clutch pedal is release after side-stepping the pedal. The controller delays then holds the clutch at the "bite" engagement point where you're expected to launch (the controller is controlling how far the pedal traveled). After a set point of time, it fully releases (like maybe after 0.75sec). Like I said, the concept is good but I think the CTAP and the OEM pedal sensor is not very compatible with each other because we're talking milliseconds in time for changes in the clutch travel.

Luckily, "Billy" is just down the road from me, maybe an hours drive. So, he's been readily available since these haven't been installed in any Camaro yet (I'm the first).

[acammer]

I have always thought about messing with one of these, but never gotten to it. Ultimately I think if you could get it dialed in well it could work pretty decently. I think getting it dialed in well is going to be challenging.

[demonspeed]

Interestingly, I was born with a clutch slipper.

[acammer]

Originally Posted by demonspeed

Interestingly, I was born with a clutch slipper.

Precisely, I have mine wired to the computer between my ears.

[dreksnot]

Originally Posted by acammer

Precisely, I have mine wired to the computer between my ears.

Unfortunately for me, I ain't got a good one of those. My 60ft-ers are all over. I did have some ideas that could help, like easing the clutch out on the launch line until it starts to grab but that would interfere with my 2-step operation (uses fully depressed clutch pedal actuation). That's how you do it, isn't it Andrew? I've got plenty of options, just thought I'd try this one for giggles. After discussing rear gearing with you, I'm going to try these 4.11 (over the 3.25) for now, and see if launching at 1.5psi or 8psi is going to give me lower 60's.

[acammer]

Originally Posted by dreksnot

Unfortunately for me, I ain't got a good one of those. My 60ft-ers are all over. I did have some ideas that could help, like easing the clutch out on the launch line until it starts to grab but that would interfere with my 2-step operation (uses fully depressed clutch pedal actuation). That's how you do it, isn't it Andrew? I've got plenty of options, just thought I'd try this one for giggles. After discussing rear gearing with you, I'm going to try these 4.11 (over the 3.25) for now, and see if launching at 1.5psi or 8psi is going to give me lower 60's.

There are a couple things that will help. You've already identified the biggest problem - and that's finding "the edge" of the friction zone. The pedal travel in a gen5 Camaro is LONG, and the second half of it is largely dead and useless. A clutch pedal stop to limit downward travel to the minimum amount required to fully release the clutch goes a long ways to helping this problem. With a clutch stop, once you begin to move out of the "fully depressed" position you're getting right into the friction zone without a large dead zone of travel. That alone can go a long way to helping consistency.

A clutch stop can be a challenge because if the travel is short enough, you may not be able to travel the clutch position sensor far enough to tell the ECM you have the pedal depressed and to allow the engine to crank. There is a clutch position learn in HPTuners that kinda sorta sometimes works, or you can just remove the clutch pedal/starting interlock and take the clutch pedal out of the equation completely. Keep in mind, the car can and will start in gear if you key the starter while in gear. I don't ever hand my keys to anyone else, so this is not a concern for me.

The other thing that goes a long way is using the e-brake to preload the driveline on launches. You're basically using the e-brake to hold the car still while you lightly drag the clutch. This benefits in two ways - you know you're right in the edge of the friction zone, and you also have all the "slack" out of the driveline, which dramatically helps reduce breakage and wheel hop. As you identified, this can be a problem if the two setup does not release in the correct place. This should be tunable if you're using a Lingenfelter C-Tap to translate the 0-5v clutch sensor signal to an on/off 12v signal for a two step.

I use a N2MB WOT box, which is able to interpret and set the 2 step release point anywhere in the clutch travel. I have the 2-step "release" just as I get into the middle of the friction zone, it take a little tuning to find that point, but with a good 2 step it's going to start to release as soon as the RPM drops at all from the clutch release and be instantly at full power.

I've got a launch video out on YouTube that goes into some of this. It's a little lengthy, but it may have some nuggets of information that you'd find valuable. With your power level, I think you're going to be doing a dance of power management with your right foot on top of modulating your left foot. Some power management strategies could really help you're launch too - timing or boost against either time or mph could be valuable in helping manage that power and bring it in at a rate the tires will handle.

[dreksnot]

Most of what you said is applicable to my setup. With the triple clutch, the engagement is quick. I do have a line-lock and n2mb WOT box. I do like to build boost on the starting line with the 2-step, in conjunction with my anti-lag; with both is just the ticket). I can't recall if I need to go into debug mode with the n2mb to change the "clutch threshold" so my no-lift shift still functions as it should (I don't want to lose the turbo boost between shifts with the throttle closing up). I think I need to have it show clutch depressed quicker but it might effect my no-lift shifting. I need to connect the cable to the car to see... I can use my line-lock instead of the e-brake as a preload device. My Cortex boost controller can help limit the boost level for launch (does boost by gear and does have a launch boost control (which I haven't played with yet).

As usual, your advice is solid and sound. Thanks.

[acammer]

Originally Posted by dreksnot

Most of what you said is applicable to my setup. With the triple clutch, the engagement is quick. I do have a line-lock and n2mb WOT box. I do like to build boost on the starting line with the 2-step, in conjunction with my anti-lag; with both is just the ticket). I can't recall if I need to go into debug mode with the n2mb to change the "clutch threshold" so my no-lift shift still functions as it should (I don't want to lose the turbo boost between shifts with the throttle closing up). I think I need to have it show clutch depressed quicker but it might effect my no-lift shifting. I need to connect the cable to the car to see... I can use my line-lock instead of the e-brake as a preload device. My Cortex boost controller can help limit the boost level for launch (does boost by gear and does have a launch boost control (which I haven't played with yet).

As usual, your advice is solid and sound. Thanks.

That's exactly right, you gotta go into debug mode to change the threshold, I believe the 2-step and no lift can be done independently, but it's been a while since I've been in that software. Sounds like you've got a lot of tuning to work out, but you've got some strategies you can apply.

[camguynj]

Originally Posted by acammer

There are a couple things that will help. You've already identified the biggest problem - and that's finding "the edge" of the friction zone. The pedal travel in a gen5 Camaro is LONG, and the second half of it is largely dead and useless. A clutch pedal stop to limit downward travel to the minimum amount required to fully release the clutch goes a long ways to helping this problem. With a clutch stop, once you begin to move out of the "fully depressed" position you're getting right into the friction zone without a large dead zone of travel. That alone can go a long way to helping consistency.

A clutch stop can be a challenge because if the travel is short enough, you may not be able to travel the clutch position sensor far enough to tell the ECM you have the pedal depressed and to allow the engine to crank. There is a clutch position learn in HPTuners that kinda sorta sometimes works, or you can just remove the clutch pedal/starting interlock and take the clutch pedal out of the equation completely. Keep in mind, the car can and will start in gear if you key the starter while in gear. I don't ever hand my keys to anyone else, so this is not a concern for me.

The other thing that goes a long way is using the e-brake to preload the driveline on launches. You're basically using the e-brake to hold the car still while you lightly drag the clutch. This benefits in two ways - you know you're right in the edge of the friction zone, and you also have all the "slack" out of the driveline, which dramatically helps reduce breakage and wheel hop. As you identified, this can be a problem if the two setup does not release in the correct place. This should be tunable if you're using a Lingenfelter C-Tap to translate the 0-5v clutch sensor signal to an on/off 12v signal for a two step.

I use a N2MB WOT box, which is able to interpret and set the 2 step release point anywhere in the clutch travel. I have the 2-step "release" just as I get into the middle of the friction zone, it take a little tuning to find that point, but with a good 2 step it's going to start to release as soon as the RPM drops at all from the clutch release and be instantly at full power.

I've got a launch video out on YouTube that goes into some of this. It's a little lengthy, but it may have some nuggets of information that you'd find valuable. With your power level, I think you're going to be doing a dance of power management with your right foot on top of modulating your left foot. Some power management strategies could really help you're launch too - timing or boost against either time or mph could be valuable in helping manage that power and bring it in at a rate the tires will handle.

Thank you for the video! VERY informative & helpful! What about Launch Control
and Traction Control useage?

[1JEWLDSSRS]

That clutch slipper deal is kinda cool. I saw a vid on YT where Cleetus Mc Farland had installed one in his LS powered car "Leroy" and was dialing it in at the track. He said once he got used to how it was acting, he liked it. Cool stuff.

[1JEWLDSSRS]

Here it be..

[1JEWLDSSRS]

One more for good measure, go to 3.12 where they start talking about it..