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Old 01-12-2018, 11:48 AM   #57
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Ricco View Post
I call BS. If you took price out of the equation, any track junkie would go Carbon Ceramic every single time.
Call BS all you want. It is true. Many many track junkies shelf factory installed CCM for Iron. Fact is that CCM is very costly for little advantage.

Porsche forum. See post #6 Guy tracking a GT2... replaced to iron

https://rennlist.com/forums/gt4/8972...ar-brakes.html

Stingray forum

http://www.stingrayforums.com/forum/...track-use.html

Corvette Forum <-- examples but a quick search will turn up a ton more.

https://www.corvetteforum.com/forums...ic-brakes.html

https://www.corvetteforum.com/forums...rn-rotors.html

https://www.corvetteforum.com/forums...7-package.html

McLaren Forum

http://www.mclarenlife.com/forums/mc...kes-discs.html

R8 Forum

http://www.r8talk.com/forums/5-gener...rake-life.html


As a street brake they last a good long time. Track brake you are better with iron.
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Old 01-12-2018, 01:41 PM   #58
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Quote:
Originally Posted by BlackinBlack View Post
Call BS all you want. It is true. Many many track junkies shelf factory installed CCM for Iron. Fact is that CCM is very costly for little advantage.

Porsche forum. See post #6 Guy tracking a GT2... replaced to iron

https://rennlist.com/forums/gt4/8972...ar-brakes.html

Stingray forum

http://www.stingrayforums.com/forum/...track-use.html

Corvette Forum <-- examples but a quick search will turn up a ton more.

https://www.corvetteforum.com/forums...ic-brakes.html

https://www.corvetteforum.com/forums...rn-rotors.html

https://www.corvetteforum.com/forums...7-package.html

McLaren Forum

http://www.mclarenlife.com/forums/mc...kes-discs.html

R8 Forum

http://www.r8talk.com/forums/5-gener...rake-life.html


As a street brake they last a good long time. Track brake you are better with iron.
Sheesh, I never once said people weren't doing it. I said if you took price out of the equation they would run the CCB's all day long.

I called BS on you saying that they were a gimmick and Iron is just plain better for track use.
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Old 01-12-2018, 01:48 PM   #59
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Ricco View Post
Sheesh, I never once said people weren't doing it. I said if you took price out of the equation they would run the CCB's all day long.

I called BS on you saying that they were a gimmick and Iron is just plain better for track use.
Agreed they are better in every way except cost to track. I believe it was C&D that tested the GS vs GS/Z07 70-0 and the Z07 package stopped considerably shorter.
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Old 01-12-2018, 03:19 PM   #60
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Ricco View Post
Sheesh, I never once said people weren't doing it. I said if you took price out of the equation they would run the CCB's all day long.

I called BS on you saying that they were a gimmick and Iron is just plain better for track use.
Show me one professional racing team using CCM? And before you say F1 you need to know they don't use CCM but a pure carbon brake that is amazing but is not CCM. Also note the time it takes to make them and how long they last.

http://www.brembo.com/en/car/formula-1/f1-infographics

The corvette racing team is going to spend any amount of money to win. So money is no object. Guess what brake material they use..... IRON. Link below and look at that racing brake. It is IRON.

https://www.essexparts.com/news-blog...t-daytonaagain

If they were so good then no reason to remove....

https://www.corvetteforum.com/forums...7-zo6-zo7.html

Racing brake kit for the C7.... not CCM but IRON

https://www.corvetteforum.com/forums...-shipping.html



Quote:
Originally Posted by 2cnd chance View Post
Agreed they are better in every way except cost to track. I believe it was C&D that tested the GS vs GS/Z07 70-0 and the Z07 package stopped considerably shorter.
Please provide a link. This would be news and I would assume GM would have advertised this fact everyplace. I cannot find any evidence that the CCM improves 60-0.

As someone that has driven both CCM and IRON equipped Z06 cars on a track with the same tires I have not noticed any difference. (Sport Cup 2 verse SS makes a bigger difference.)

End of day you want to believe that CCM is some magical material that will last forever and is so much better. Enjoy. My car has iron brakes because they work as good, wear slightly faster, but are a ton cheaper allowing for money for tires and gas.
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Old 01-12-2018, 03:36 PM   #61
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I thought I entered into a manual vs auto vs dct thread.
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Old 01-12-2018, 06:47 PM   #62
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Quote:
Originally Posted by BlackinBlack View Post
Show me one professional racing team using CCM? And before you say F1 you need to know they don't use CCM but a pure carbon brake that is amazing but is not CCM. Also note the time it takes to make them and how long they last.

http://www.brembo.com/en/car/formula-1/f1-infographics

The corvette racing team is going to spend any amount of money to win. So money is no object. Guess what brake material they use..... IRON. Link below and look at that racing brake. It is IRON.

https://www.essexparts.com/news-blog...t-daytonaagain

If they were so good then no reason to remove....

https://www.corvetteforum.com/forums...7-zo6-zo7.html

Racing brake kit for the C7.... not CCM but IRON

https://www.corvetteforum.com/forums...-shipping.html





Please provide a link. This would be news and I would assume GM would have advertised this fact everyplace. I cannot find any evidence that the CCM improves 60-0.

As someone that has driven both CCM and IRON equipped Z06 cars on a track with the same tires I have not noticed any difference. (Sport Cup 2 verse SS makes a bigger difference.)

End of day you want to believe that CCM is some magical material that will last forever and is so much better. Enjoy. My car has iron brakes because they work as good, wear slightly faster, but are a ton cheaper allowing for money for tires and gas.
https://www.caranddriver.com/feature...d-sport-page-5

I’d say 10’ is pretty significant, not to mention no fade. And as you mentioned less unsprung weight adding to the handling.

In an older interview they said the only reason the C7R doesn’t run carbon brakes is that the IMSA rules don’t allow them to.
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Old 01-12-2018, 08:17 PM   #63
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Originally Posted by travislambert View Post
I understand, but I question how realistic/useful those numbers would be considering people who track their cars regularly aren't going to pay the ridiculous list prices. The prices from popular dealerships that sell parts online are probably much closer to what someone would realistically pay.

(The #s they gave you for the irons aren't for the Z06 which is why they're so cheap.)

After doing this comparison, I checked RockAuto.com, and they actually sell the factory ceramic rotors (AC Delco branded of course) for $1,444.79. That'd bring the cost of the full ceramic replacement to $3,476.46.

CCM Brakes are expensive, but for mainstream cars I don't think they're nearly as expensive as some people seemingly want to believe. If these brakes were more common in the Camaro, Corvette, Mustangs, etc., we'd see the cost drop significantly. In the end, they probably wouldn't cost much more than the irons.
I guess Im used to having different clientel around. I have guys that rent out Road America for a day with their friends just to track their cars. Hire a caterer for their lunch break etc. Mercedes and Porsche customers (not all) tend to just fix their cars, not search the internet for the best price. I get thats not mainstream.....
I did go back and get an updated quote. Would seem the previous quote for those iron Z06 where probably from an outside source like FMP (Factory Motor Parts). I updated my original post to reflect the proper GM dealership sourced parts. I also checked GMpartsdirect.com for the fun of it. Yes there is a considerable difference. This doesnt necessarily exist for other brands though.
Just to throw in another tid bit of info. Porsche states that if their CCB's are street only, they will last 200,000 miles. I questioned our Porsche tech about this, as Tonwhether this meant pads and rotors, or rotors only. He stated they didnt define, but assumed they only mean the rotors.
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Old 01-12-2018, 09:19 PM   #64
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Quote:
Originally Posted by BlackinBlack View Post
Show me one professional racing team using CCM? And before you say F1 you need to know they don't use CCM but a pure carbon brake that is amazing but is not CCM. Also note the time it takes to make them and how long they last.

http://www.brembo.com/en/car/formula-1/f1-infographics

The corvette racing team is going to spend any amount of money to win. So money is no object. Guess what brake material they use..... IRON. Link below and look at that racing brake. It is IRON.

https://www.essexparts.com/news-blog...t-daytonaagain

If they were so good then no reason to remove....

https://www.corvetteforum.com/forums...7-zo6-zo7.html

Racing brake kit for the C7.... not CCM but IRON

https://www.corvetteforum.com/forums...-shipping.html





Please provide a link. This would be news and I would assume GM would have advertised this fact everyplace. I cannot find any evidence that the CCM improves 60-0.

As someone that has driven both CCM and IRON equipped Z06 cars on a track with the same tires I have not noticed any difference. (Sport Cup 2 verse SS makes a bigger difference.)

End of day you want to believe that CCM is some magical material that will last forever and is so much better. Enjoy. My car has iron brakes because they work as good, wear slightly faster, but are a ton cheaper allowing for money for tires and gas.
Even if they performed identically in any 60-0 test, unsprung weight is a huge deal in racing, as is resistance to fade. Again, no-one said they last longer or are cheaper yet you seem to keep wanting to put those words in my mouth. You say Iron is better but then just keep on saying Iron is better because they are cheaper.
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Previous cars in chronological order
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Old 01-13-2018, 04:19 PM   #65
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Ricco View Post
Even if they performed identically in any 60-0 test, unsprung weight is a huge deal in racing, as is resistance to fade. Again, no-one said they last longer or are cheaper yet you seem to keep wanting to put those words in my mouth. You say Iron is better but then just keep on saying Iron is better because they are cheaper.
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Old 01-15-2018, 12:47 PM   #66
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I've found the Super Trofeo Lamborghini Huracan and Ferrari Challenge cars use CCB's.

http://www.motortrend.com/cars/lambo...eo-evo-review/
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Old 01-15-2018, 01:05 PM   #67
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Originally Posted by 2cnd chance View Post
I've found the Super Trofeo Lamborghini Huracan and Ferrari Challenge cars use CCB's.

http://www.motortrend.com/cars/lambo...eo-evo-review/
It says carbon brakes. I’d gander they are carbon/carbon, NOT carbon ceramic. Huge difference if so. I zoomed in on the only pic of them and they don’t look like either honestly, and look more like iron to me haha.
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