2002 Camaro sloppy steering - Camaro5 Chevy Camaro Forum / Camaro ZL1, SS and V6 Forums

okra · 06-25-2021, 01:44 PM

Hi All,
I have a 2002 Camaro, V6 with T tops. Bought the car for $4000 and have added about another $3000 in suspension and tire upgrades.

Things I have done so far:
-new BF Goodrich tires G-Force Comp 2 245/50ZR16 97W, all balanced on OEM chrome mags
-Changed all bushings to Moog Rubber in the Front Upper and Lower Control Arms, and Rear Control Arms
-Changed all Front Ball Joins to Moog
-Changed both Outer Tie Rod Ends to Moog
-Changed front Sway Bar to used Edelbrock (fat and meaty), new poly Energy end-links. Used poly bushings on front sway bar. They are in excellent condition. Greased with Silicon grease
-Changed rear Sway Bar to QA1 (fat and meaty), with provided QA1 end-links and poly bushings. Greased with Silicon grease.
-Changed pan hard rod in rear with QA1, greased there provided poly bushings with silicon.
-Changed rear bearings on solid axel. Some wear was noted, but seems to be Okay. Oil changed on diff.
-Changed front springs to Moog SS Camaro. Unfortunately choose V8 springs, front sits about 1" higher then rear, but spring suspension is nice, tight and firm.
-Changed rear springs to Moog Heavy Duty
-Changed front and rear shocks to Koni Orange
-Changed the steering rack and power steering pump. OEM GM PS fluid.
-Changed the Intermediate shaft between steering rack and steering wheel. I bought it used as I could not find new, but it seems to have zero sloop and made a significant difference when I changed it.
-Changed front brake rotors and pads
-Changed rear pads

The car rides NICE, corners on a dime. Problem is, from when I bought the car it had a very serous shake problem with I hit the brakes on the highway, and I am unsure how long the car was driven with that problem. It might have been stressing the steering ALOT for a long time. This might be why I got the car for so cheap. I assumed the front rotors were warped. I changed the front brake rotors and pads and the shake problem entirely went away forever. Yeah.

Second problem, ever since I bought the car, it wonders on the highway, even after multiple alignments. It always comes back front the alignment shop where they say the suspension is tight and straight, but it still wonders on the highway with a little gap in the center steering wheel as I drive. It's not a huge gap, but.... I don't like it and I can't go really fast without wandering. I assume I am looking at some kind of warn suspension component that still allows the car to be aligned when still, but wonders when driving.

Third issue, that car did have a front end accident many years ago and the front bumper was changed. It was only $1500 damage. Found this out on CarFacts.

Question, is this something I will need to live with or is it fixable? The car DOES ALIGN on the alignment rack.

Things I was thinking of doing:
-Checked the front wheel bearings by jacking up the car and rocking the wheels front top to bottom. Change if needed.
-Installing bolt and then weld-in subframe connectors as the car is a T-Top and "maybe" I am dealing with flex in the frame due to the car being over 20 years old.

Any ideas would greatly be appreciated

okra · 07-03-2021, 12:36 PM

Well, I checked the front wheel bearings. They are very quiet, smooth and zero play.

I checked the rear solid axil bearings, and they are very smooth with a barely noticeable play when I pull the wheel in and out, with about 1/4-1/8mm play. Almost zero. Wiggling the wheel top to bottom and side to side is zero play.

Is the very minor 1/4-1/8mm play while pulling the rear solid axil wheels in and out, normal ? The axils have zero noise from them and it's all OEM. I changed the rear bearings and diff oil two years ago.

Any ideas where this sloppy steering could be coming from ?

G8One2 · 07-03-2021, 01:14 PM

Steering rack, inner and out tie rods, and the bushings or U-joints on the intermediate shaft on the steering rack side, and the steering column side. Any of these items worn out, can add considerable play to the steering.

Bigdumogre · 07-03-2021, 01:31 PM

You can check the rack to see if there is play in it or the inner tie rods. You have pretty much changed everything else lol

G8One2 · 07-03-2021, 03:07 PM

Intermediate shafts can have a TON of play in them. Just jiggle the wheel back and forth and look at it. There's one attached at the steering column and one in the engine compartment, attached to the steering rack.

okra · 07-03-2021, 05:27 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by G8One2

Intermediate shafts can have a TON of play in them. Just jiggle the wheel back and forth and look at it. There's one attached at the steering column and one in the engine compartment, attached to the steering rack.

Hu, yeah that is exactly what I thought so I changed the intermediate shaft with the only thing I could find which was a USED intermediate shaft. Can I rebuild my old intermediate shaft ? I just don't know where to find parts to do that... Everywhere I have looked for a new shaft, the part is discontinued :( Rebuilding would be an awesome option, if you know where I can find parts ?

On a side note, I have been researching and some GM's come with a Rag Joint. My intermediate shaft seems to NOT use/have a Rag Joint. Am I wrong with this ? It seems to be just a steel shaft with two U joint on each side, and holes with bolts to attach to the rack and steering column.

https://www.gmpartsprime.com/genuine...-26020775.html

When I did change my old intermediate shaft to a new USED shaft there was a big difference in drivability.

Scotavo · 03-17-2022, 08:39 AM

https://www.camaro5.com/forums/showthread.php?t=603353
Why?
Sloppy steering (only kidding a little)
You asked "any ideas where its coming from"?
The unibody is so flexible the smallest steering input twists the attachment points of your front suspension and steering. Instead of moving the tires. Really. The photo of my Z-28 shows one way to stop this. The tiniest move on the steering wheel produces an instant predictable change in direction. Less drastic mods work some, but suspension mods and new OEM parts do nothing to remove the issue.

Scotavo · 03-17-2022, 08:53 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Bigdumogre

You can check the rack to see if there is play in it or the inner tie rods. You have pretty much changed everything else lol

That was exactly what I thought back in 2000 when I started my Z-28 mods. Never imagined it would take me so far from "sloppy steering". I've posted elsewhere what driving the car is like.

06-25-2021, 01:44 PM	#1
okra 2002 Camaro V6 T-Top Drives: 2002 Camaro Join Date: Jun 2021 Location: Vancouver Posts: 9	2002 Camaro sloppy steering Hi All, I have a 2002 Camaro, V6 with T tops. Bought the car for $4000 and have added about another $3000 in suspension and tire upgrades. Things I have done so far: -new BF Goodrich tires G-Force Comp 2 245/50ZR16 97W, all balanced on OEM chrome mags -Changed all bushings to Moog Rubber in the Front Upper and Lower Control Arms, and Rear Control Arms -Changed all Front Ball Joins to Moog -Changed both Outer Tie Rod Ends to Moog -Changed front Sway Bar to used Edelbrock (fat and meaty), new poly Energy end-links. Used poly bushings on front sway bar. They are in excellent condition. Greased with Silicon grease -Changed rear Sway Bar to QA1 (fat and meaty), with provided QA1 end-links and poly bushings. Greased with Silicon grease. -Changed pan hard rod in rear with QA1, greased there provided poly bushings with silicon. -Changed rear bearings on solid axel. Some wear was noted, but seems to be Okay. Oil changed on diff. -Changed front springs to Moog SS Camaro. Unfortunately choose V8 springs, front sits about 1" higher then rear, but spring suspension is nice, tight and firm. -Changed rear springs to Moog Heavy Duty -Changed front and rear shocks to Koni Orange -Changed the steering rack and power steering pump. OEM GM PS fluid. -Changed the Intermediate shaft between steering rack and steering wheel. I bought it used as I could not find new, but it seems to have zero sloop and made a significant difference when I changed it. -Changed front brake rotors and pads -Changed rear pads The car rides NICE, corners on a dime. Problem is, from when I bought the car it had a very serous shake problem with I hit the brakes on the highway, and I am unsure how long the car was driven with that problem. It might have been stressing the steering ALOT for a long time. This might be why I got the car for so cheap. I assumed the front rotors were warped. I changed the front brake rotors and pads and the shake problem entirely went away forever. Yeah. Second problem, ever since I bought the car, it wonders on the highway, even after multiple alignments. It always comes back front the alignment shop where they say the suspension is tight and straight, but it still wonders on the highway with a little gap in the center steering wheel as I drive. It's not a huge gap, but.... I don't like it and I can't go really fast without wandering. I assume I am looking at some kind of warn suspension component that still allows the car to be aligned when still, but wonders when driving. Third issue, that car did have a front end accident many years ago and the front bumper was changed. It was only $1500 damage. Found this out on CarFacts. Question, is this something I will need to live with or is it fixable? The car DOES ALIGN on the alignment rack. Things I was thinking of doing: -Checked the front wheel bearings by jacking up the car and rocking the wheels front top to bottom. Change if needed. -Installing bolt and then weld-in subframe connectors as the car is a T-Top and "maybe" I am dealing with flex in the frame due to the car being over 20 years old. Any ideas would greatly be appreciated

07-03-2021, 12:36 PM	#2
okra 2002 Camaro V6 T-Top Drives: 2002 Camaro Join Date: Jun 2021 Location: Vancouver Posts: 9	Well, I checked the front wheel bearings. They are very quiet, smooth and zero play. I checked the rear solid axil bearings, and they are very smooth with a barely noticeable play when I pull the wheel in and out, with about 1/4-1/8mm play. Almost zero. Wiggling the wheel top to bottom and side to side is zero play. Is the very minor 1/4-1/8mm play while pulling the rear solid axil wheels in and out, normal ? The axils have zero noise from them and it's all OEM. I changed the rear bearings and diff oil two years ago. Any ideas where this sloppy steering could be coming from ? __________________ 2002 Camaro V6 T-Top, orange Koni, Moog SS springs, Eibach/QA1 swaybars

07-03-2021, 01:31 PM	#4
Bigdumogre Drives: 2012 Camaro SS Join Date: Dec 2019 Location: New York Posts: 1,434	You can check the rack to see if there is play in it or the inner tie rods. You have pretty much changed everything else lol __________________ 2012 Camaro 2SS/RS - CSP Custom Cam 232/240 .615/.615 113 +3, Texas speed CNC heads, FTI billet triple disc converter, K&N cai, Katech ported TB, GPI Ported/rod modded manifold, Texas speed 1 7/8 headers, HFC, Flowmaster 2 chambers with x pipe, Mishimoto CC, MSD wires, Roto fab washer relocation, tru cool 40k trans cooler, apex scoop, Pedders extreme coil overs and much more!!

07-03-2021, 01:14 PM	#3
G8One2 Drives: 2014 Camaro 2SS Join Date: Feb 2015 Location: Metro Detroit Posts: 492	Steering rack, inner and out tie rods, and the bushings or U-joints on the intermediate shaft on the steering rack side, and the steering column side. Any of these items worn out, can add considerable play to the steering.

07-03-2021, 03:07 PM	#5
G8One2 Drives: 2014 Camaro 2SS Join Date: Feb 2015 Location: Metro Detroit Posts: 492	Intermediate shafts can have a TON of play in them. Just jiggle the wheel back and forth and look at it. There's one attached at the steering column and one in the engine compartment, attached to the steering rack.

03-17-2022, 08:39 AM	#7
Scotavo Account Suspended Drives: 2013 Caprice PPV 2014 Caprice PPV Join Date: Mar 2022 Location: Zurich, Switzerland Posts: 195	https://www.camaro5.com/forums/showthread.php?t=603353 Why? Sloppy steering (only kidding a little) You asked "any ideas where its coming from"? The unibody is so flexible the smallest steering input twists the attachment points of your front suspension and steering. Instead of moving the tires. Really. The photo of my Z-28 shows one way to stop this. The tiniest move on the steering wheel produces an instant predictable change in direction. Less drastic mods work some, but suspension mods and new OEM parts do nothing to remove the issue.