[fastball]

Originally Posted by Number 3

Sorry, I value your opinion, but I am just to close to people in Marketing at GM and I know they know their Sh*t.

Ah, do they know their sh*t or do they know they’re sh*t?

That is the REAL question!

[Mighty Mouce]

Originally Posted by Gen6_1Le

How many commercials have you seen for Tesla ? Millennials really like the cars and love Elon Musk . All the advertising you need for Millennials and especially Gen Z is Google , and sadly they see these Camaros today as a rotary dial phone . Chevy don't need more advertising ,they need a Camaro that is built for the 21st century. Make it and they will sell.

LOL....TESLA is in deep financial trouble. And I see lots of print ads for Tesla.

[Mighty Mouce]

Originally Posted by motorhead

Whose 21 st century? Not the one that anyone I know wants. The "millennials" I know don't like anything about Elon Musk. They look at him as nothing more than an eccentric pothead that got people to give him money to build crappy cars. They are more into Jeep Wangers, big trucks and Harley Davidsons. They like vehicles they can have fun with but are useful. Camaros only fit one of those. Tesla is tanking anyhow. I believe you are watching too much CNN.

You mean Fake NEws.

[Mighty Mouce]

Originally Posted by Gen6_1Le

You must live in a very different part of the world then i do , i haven't seen anyone under 50 on a Harley since the 70s. The millennials and GenZ i know are into what is going on with SpaceX and are powered by technology . They love WRXs and anything VTEC , mostly because they use them in the videos games i think . The Camaro to them is just a midlife crisis car there father buys .

True..Most of the Millennials I see just seem to be hating on anything with Made in America on it...they turn their noses up and go back to texting. Its strange.

[CCG Garnet Red]

Well, the best JB Power Award commercials for 2018 models are out. Only GM model of 14 given was the Cadillac Escalade.

[Gen6_1Le]

Originally Posted by Mighty Mouce

LOL....TESLA is in deep financial trouble. And I see lots of print ads for Tesla.

Elon Musk spent a huge amount of time and money developing his online ordering system knowing Millennials are more likely to shop and order a car online. Tesla as a company may be in trouble but they are on to something .

[Aragorn]

Originally Posted by Mighty Mouce

True..Most of the Millennials I see just seem to be hating on anything with Made in America on it...they turn their noses up and go back to texting. Its strange.

I don’t think they hate made in America. They just like those types of cars. A lot of them go for the focus also... Maybe Gm should spruce up the Cruze...?

[DaveC113]

Interesting thread. I am picking up a 1SS 1LE tomorrow and previously owned a couple WRXs and a '16 STi.

IMO, where they dropped the ball on the Camaro is styling, space and practicality. Gen 6 is a different car and appeals to people who like sports cars and is priced to attract buyers like me who can't afford a $50k+ sports car, don't want to spend on a 2nd car, and are willing to sacrifice to a degree to have a fun, sporty car they can take to the track. The Camaro is on the edge of being acceptable for this purpose, my previous STi has a lot more in the way of practicality. Many others will not consider a Camaro because of style, visibility and space issues.

To attract a new audience they should have changed the styling more significantly, given the greenhouse 2" more height, a bit more space behind the front seats and a useable trunk opening.

Then, they need to ADVERTISE that it's a different car. Not everyone reads car magazines and watches car vids on Youtube. How many people know this car is more than competitive with BMW M cars and Audi S cars? Only the hardcore enthusiasts. Nobody else even noticed there was a different Camaro for 2016.

There is A LOT to like about the new Camaro and imo the engineers did an amazing job. I'm a ME myself and I really appreciate having a car like the 1SS 1LE. It's only a couple grand more than my STi, and you get so much more for the money vs the Subie. These days the STi is barely faster than an Ecoboost Ford Escape or a typical V6 sedan and it gets worse fuel economy vs a SS Camaro with 150 more hp and the engine is simply garbage.

The Camaro is so good that I don't feel like I need to change anything, where most STi owners will quickly void their warranty trying to get their car to perform, many times destroying the motor... the Subaru EJ is a huge POS that is the exact opposite of confidence inspiring, and to be honest the STi's motor needs to be ripped out and replaced right off the showroom floor.

In any case, the Camaro is a bit confused right now... it's trying to appeal to too many people. It's simply too small and too much of a real sports cars for many traditional muscle car guys, and many people that would consider a BMW 4 series or Audi 5 series don't even know it exists. I'd bet almost none of the owners of these German brands cross shopped or bothered to test drive a Camaro, and even if they did the styling and practicality are issues. It'll be the same story for trying to appeal to the STi, Focus RS, etc crowd too. The styling and space issues are often dealbreakers.

I totally feel like I'm sacrificing in some ways vs keeping my STi, for me it's worth it but for most it's not. Simple as that. Chevy needs to decide if the Camaro is going to get smaller and faster, and be a real sports car like it is now but better, or if it's going to offer a bit more in terms of practicality while retaining it's current performance level.

[18LTLoveIt]

Originally Posted by torqueaddict

This is certainly a good point and a puzzling one, however, there are a few things to consider:

-The 5th gen was the 'comeback' car from the 4th gen which was discontinued. I think there was a lot of build-up to its release.

5 years of steady over 80,000 units, King of Pony Car sales? Come on!

5th Gen was a Home Run, and remember they had several years to design it and tweak it even after it being a concept car in 2006.

I agree with many 5th gen buyers saying the 6th is too small, not in overall size but interior space. (over the decades the challenge from auto makers was to downsize the car and not change interior volume).

[Quix]

I'm going to take another tact here and say that what GM really needs to improve is their dealership experience. Mine has been pretty bad, and I've dealt with 2 different dealerships. I feel like the service people are always trying to sell you everything they possibly can, regardless of if it's needed and price negotiation (which I ended up doing 3 times) was really horrible. One dealership literally told me that they would be unable to source a 6th gen V6 without a sunroof (I'm very tall). I really feel like I can't trust the dealer at all and by extension I'm not sure I can trust GM either.

My previous car was a Mazda 3 and I had it serviced at the dealership the entire 8 years I owned it because they never tried to up-sell me on anything, and always followed the recommended service guide from Mazda (except for wear parts, obviously, but even those didn't need changing often).

I've also had a fair number of initial quality issues with my car that have required significant servicing, more than any car I've ever owned. Overall I'm not sure I'd buy another GM product. GM needs to step up on service and build quality across the board. I think I'll probably end up buying a Lexus or Acura next.

[Aragorn]

Zl1 on famous nurburgring. 32 sec slower than aventador, but the latter costs $400 k. Not a bad time at all for the cost.

https://m.youtube.com/watch?v=t4zSIVpVMaw

[Number 3]

Originally Posted by DaveC113

Interesting thread. I am picking up a 1SS 1LE tomorrow and previously owned a couple WRXs and a '16 STi.

IMO, where they dropped the ball on the Camaro is styling, space and practicality. Gen 6 is a different car and appeals to people who like sports cars and is priced to attract buyers like me who can't afford a $50k+ sports car, don't want to spend on a 2nd car, and are willing to sacrifice to a degree to have a fun, sporty car they can take to the track. The Camaro is on the edge of being acceptable for this purpose, my previous STi has a lot more in the way of practicality. Many others will not consider a Camaro because of style, visibility and space issues.

To attract a new audience they should have changed the styling more significantly, given the greenhouse 2" more height, a bit more space behind the front seats and a useable trunk opening.

Then, they need to ADVERTISE that it's a different car. Not everyone reads car magazines and watches car vids on Youtube. How many people know this car is more than competitive with BMW M cars and Audi S cars? Only the hardcore enthusiasts. Nobody else even noticed there was a different Camaro for 2016.

There is A LOT to like about the new Camaro and imo the engineers did an amazing job. I'm a ME myself and I really appreciate having a car like the 1SS 1LE. It's only a couple grand more than my STi, and you get so much more for the money vs the Subie. These days the STi is barely faster than an Ecoboost Ford Escape or a typical V6 sedan and it gets worse fuel economy vs a SS Camaro with 150 more hp and the engine is simply garbage.

The Camaro is so good that I don't feel like I need to change anything, where most STi owners will quickly void their warranty trying to get their car to perform, many times destroying the motor... the Subaru EJ is a huge POS that is the exact opposite of confidence inspiring, and to be honest the STi's motor needs to be ripped out and replaced right off the showroom floor.

In any case, the Camaro is a bit confused right now... it's trying to appeal to too many people. It's simply too small and too much of a real sports cars for many traditional muscle car guys, and many people that would consider a BMW 4 series or Audi 5 series don't even know it exists. I'd bet almost none of the owners of these German brands cross shopped or bothered to test drive a Camaro, and even if they did the styling and practicality are issues. It'll be the same story for trying to appeal to the STi, Focus RS, etc crowd too. The styling and space issues are often dealbreakers.

I totally feel like I'm sacrificing in some ways vs keeping my STi, for me it's worth it but for most it's not. Simple as that. Chevy needs to decide if the Camaro is going to get smaller and faster, and be a real sports car like it is now but better, or if it's going to offer a bit more in terms of practicality while retaining it's current performance level.

Sorry, but you missed one. Increase it's practicality AND increase it's performance. Nothing says if GM were to elect to add back some trunk space, some rear seat room and a larger green house that performance would have to be held.

For example, Omega weighs in around the same as Alpha and it weighs less comparing a CT6 to a CTS, about 400 pounds less. But you'll pay for that architecture. Also, GM could afford to add 100 pounds back in and simply get the LT1 to 475 HP. Also a workable solution.


I'm not sure how much smaller they can actually go and still have room for an LT1 let alone an LT4. Which may simply mean a change to a smaller V8 architecture down the road.

One thing most people forget is that we are already on a GM/Chevrolet/Camaro web site......frequently. So we are brand aware and company aware. Problem is, GM has a HUGE brand awareness problem and Chevrolet has a HUGE problem as well. On the coasts, GM has a market share below 10%, down in the single digits the last data I saw. There were people in studies that did not even know Chevrolet made cars. They thought Chevy was only trucks. So when we complain about GM not advertising the Camaro, they are simply trying to get people to realize GM makes more that Silverados and Suburbans. It's an up hill battle. Of course GM market share in Michigan was still around 40% at the time.

As for interior roominess, GM has classically failed to get good interior space in a car. Generally you will find GM has the larger exterior and smallest interiors. It's been that way for years.

[18LTLoveIt]

Oh & by the way, the pics on the ad (finally clicked on the link) are strategic. V6/T4 front
with added twinkle on lights and break lights again are lit to eliminate the goggle effect.

Chevy is on the right track overall with the better front end on lower models. This should underline already higher portion of the sales.

I bet ZL1 production will swell to ditch the black bar & ill placed flow tie.

[CamaroSS50]

Originally Posted by Gen6_1Le

How many commercials have you seen for Tesla ? Millennials really like the cars and love Elon Musk . All the advertising you need for Millennials and especially Gen Z is Google , and sadly they see these Camaros today as a rotary dial phone . Chevy don't need more advertising ,they need a Camaro that is built for the 21st century. Make it and they will sell.

Man, I don't get some of you.

Some facts:

Average age of a Tesla owner is 53.

Average income of a Tesla owner is $271,000.

So, these mysterious millennials...

Do you know they spend MORE time researching a car purchase than previous generations?

Do you know what their #1 car brand is?

AUDI

#2 HONDA
#3 MERCEDES
#4 TOYOTA
#5 BMW

By 2020 they will account for 40% of ALL Car sales.

How many AUDI commercials do you see? How many of them are pushing basic needs? How many are highlighting spectacular aspects of driving one?

How does this ad make you feel?



As for Elon Musk, there are those who want him to be the next Steve Jobs, and it is not millennials, but he is nothing more than PT Barnum, at best.

He has sold more flamethrowers than he has cars.

In fact, the entire run of Tesla is equal to the first generation Scion xB (250K).

Tesla is not the issue.

It is GM's inability to communicate.

There is nothing to argue about. The proof is in the #'s.

Ford & Dodge have been hammering away with ads which have turned into sales.

Chevy has not & it has lost its market dominance (sales) in this pony car sector.