[Z OH 6]

Originally Posted by KingLT1

This is true if all you like to do is bench race dyno numbers. Fortunately there are other metrics that play a bigger roll in how a car performs. Power to weight ratio is one example.

Either way It's not like any of these cars are cheap to buy and most that can afford them can afford a few extra thousand on fueling if need be.

You lost me there, there's a ton of Hellcats in the 8's, and a few in the 7s, and two in the 6's but those two are pretty much full blown race cars. They aren't bench racing, it's a cheaper platform for drag racing without question. What a Hellcat will not do is corner with a Camaro.

Regardless, I was just letting you know that the Hellcat platform is quite easy to setup on E85,and not just a blend, full E85 up to well over 1000whp without ever going into the engine. With the toohigh plates out now for the LT platform, that helps some for those that don't want to go internal but none of that is cheap either

[KingLT1]

Originally Posted by Z OH 6

You lost me there, there's a ton of Hellcats in the 8's, and a few in the 7s, and two in the 6's but those two are pretty much full blown race cars. They aren't bench racing, it's a cheaper platform for drag racing without question. What a Hellcat will not do is corner with a Camaro.

Regardless, I was just letting you know that the Hellcat platform is quite easy to setup on E85,and not just a blend, full E85 up to well over 1000whp without ever going into the engine. With the toohigh plates out now for the LT platform, that helps some for those that don't want to go internal but none of that is cheap either

I wasn't referencing race cars.

Either way I don't really care if the Hell Cat fuel system is cheaper to mod. My point was it's worth the investment on the LT platform to run E. They simply run better on higher octane fuel due to the higher compression.

[CamOnlyJabroni]

Originally Posted by Z OH 6

You lost me there, there's a ton of Hellcats in the 8's, and a few in the 7s, and two in the 6's but those two are pretty much full blown race cars. They aren't bench racing, it's a cheaper platform for drag racing without question. What a Hellcat will not do is corner with a Camaro.

Regardless, I was just letting you know that the Hellcat platform is quite easy to setup on E85,and not just a blend, full E85 up to well over 1000whp without ever going into the engine. With the toohigh plates out now for the LT platform, that helps some for those that don't want to go internal but none of that is cheap either

Hellcats make more power for cheaper and as easily as they make power they just as easily don’t hook up. I had one with 9-950whp. Definitely nice cruisers and weekend drag cars. They also eat drivetrain from their weight with enough power. Have to invest a lot of money into the suspension and rear end. That flex fuel you’re talking about is also limited to around 16psi. Ask Barth, Livernois, HHP and Hemituner. It doesn’t work as well as the GM platform due to whatever algorithm it relies on with the factory wideband sensor. It’s not a true flex fuel setup.

[Z OH 6]

Originally Posted by KingLT1

I wasn't referencing race cars.

Either way I don't really care if the Hell Cat fuel system is cheaper to mod. My point was it's worth the investment on the LT platform to run E. They simply run better on higher octane fuel due to the higher compression.

The only race cars I was referencing were the Hellcat's in the 6's. I agree E is worth the investment if you want to go over 700whp.

[Z OH 6]

Originally Posted by CamOnlyJabroni

Hellcats make more power for cheaper and as easily as they make power they just as easily don’t hook up. I had one with 9-950whp. Definitely nice cruisers and weekend drag cars. They also eat drivetrain from their weight with enough power. Have to invest a lot of money into the suspension and rear end. That flex fuel you’re talking about is also limited to around 16psi. Ask Barth, Livernois, HHP and Hemituner. It doesn’t work as well as the GM platform due to whatever algorithm it relies on with the factory wideband sensor. It’s not a true flex fuel setup.

Older Hellcat's have more drivetrain issues before the WB and Redeye drivetrain was available. After those models were released, nothing really needs to be upgraded other than the driveshaft, and a diff brace is recommended for good measure but not a requirement. Suspension is also not a requirement until you really start trying to push into the lower 8 second range.

They have flex fuel sensors for Hellcats too. Either way, Hellcats are cheaper for drag racing.

[nicserrentino]

Originally Posted by EDFHOBBIES

low side pump or booster, Headers, intake, and TB would be the limit of running pump e85 assuming pump e85 is around e50 to 60% Adding a pulley or porting and you will be in that 30 to 50% range.

id like to buy the 4 to 6 good piston and rods after the failure please.

my car has all the bolt ons including pulley. no ports

whatcha mean by that last part about 4-6 pistons lol

[arpad_m]

Originally Posted by nicserrentino

my car has all the bolt ons including pulley. no ports

whatcha mean by that last part about 4-6 pistons lol

Heh, he wants to be at the head of the line for the pistons that'll be saved when your motor grenades, cunning move

[nicserrentino]

Originally Posted by arpad_m

Heh, he wants to be at the head of the line for the pistons that'll be saved when your motor grenades, cunning move

well excuse my ignorance on the topic, but why would the motor grenade? from running lean in the case i lose pressure?

[arpad_m]

Originally Posted by nicserrentino

well excuse my ignorance on the topic, but why would the motor grenade? from running lean in the case i lose pressure?

I won't speak for him, but yeah, I think the train of thought here is indeed E85 -> +30% fuel req -> shimmed HPFP runs on the ragged edge of its capability -> pump can't keep up, pressure drops and/or injector duty cycle is exceeded -> mixture goes lean -> engine overheats, piston seizes or something similarly catastrophic happens -> 4-6 pistons hopefully survive

One way to avoid this is mixing E85 down to a safer percentage, I read that the gains beyond ~E60 were minimal anyway, so diminishing returns definitely seem to apply here.

[nicserrentino]

Originally Posted by arpad_m

I won't speak for him, but yeah, I think the train of thought here is indeed E85 -> +30% fuel req -> shimmed HPFP runs on the ragged edge of its capability -> pump can't keep up, pressure drops and/or injector duty cycle is exceeded -> mixture goes lean -> engine overheats, piston seizes or something similarly catastrophic happens -> 4-6 pistons hopefully survive

One way to avoid this is mixing E85 down to a safer percentage, I read that the gains beyond ~E60 were minimal anyway, so diminishing returns definitely seem to apply here.

ah gotcha. this is my first E application (clearly) so im not too informed on all the specifics on it. my plan; correct me if this is wrong, was to just run 50/50 tank of 93 and e85. not everyday nut just every once in a while. and my mind goes there and tells me to just run 50/50 since i have the flex fuel sensor and i thought it would account for the mixture. but now yall got me here all nervous

[Evansa22]

Just for reference, from e20 to e60 with the cam was an increase of 50 whp.

[arpad_m]

Originally Posted by nicserrentino

ah gotcha. this is my first E application (clearly) so im not too informed on all the specifics on it. my plan; correct me if this is wrong, was to just run 50/50 tank of 93 and e85. not everyday nut just every once in a while. and my mind goes there and tells me to just run 50/50 since i have the flex fuel sensor and i thought it would account for the mixture. but now yall got me here all nervous

Nah, it isn't too tricky, the flex fuel sensor plus the proper tune will adapt automatically to any percentage of E, and the limit of what you should use depends on how much headroom there is in the fuel system. The tuner will tell you the maximum number he considers safe for your application, and you should mix E85 up to that. This works fine for me.

The 50/50 ratio, if you indeed put E85 (that is, 85% ethanol) in along with 93 (that has 10% ethanol) would result in ~E47-E48.

You can install some smart gauge (Banks, for example) that will show you the current E percentage if you want to go fancy, or you can simply datalog the car and read out the current percentage.

BTW this is my first flex fuel application, too, so hopefully those with more experience will chime in if I forgot something.

[BlaqWhole]

Originally Posted by KingLT1

Either way feel free to stay on 93 and get gapped by cars with less mods on E...

They're welcome to try...

Originally Posted by arpad_m

There is no aggravation, you are reaching with these made up problems. You upgrade your fuel system (once) and get a tune that supports x% ethanol, and then you blend 93 and E85 to have less than x% ethanol in the tank each time.

If even this is too much, you upgrade your fuel system (once) with a tune for 85%+ ethanol, and then you can put any mix of 93 and E85 into the tank anytime, basically "fire and forget".

I can understand you personally don't want to mess with "that crap", but then just say that, no need to try and make it look worse than it is.

Geez man put the gun away. The hell, 10 years on this forum and you still can't tell when I'm jokingly exaggerating?? Do you know me at all bro?? You're hurting my feelings...again!!

For the record guys, I have an E tune along with the DSX flex fuel sensor. I can go up to E44 with my tune and it made about 30 more RWHP over my 93 octane tune.

But not for nothin, the same guys talking about how great E85 is because it'll "gap" this or that...well so will an EV, lol!! So by your same argument you all should be welcoming EVs with open arms since stock EVs are gonna gap E85 tuned modded ZL1s. Just sayin.

Anyway, OP, any reputable shop should not be having an issue with this. First off they have to disable the code that pops up when you use E85 since it makes the ECU think you have less fuel pressure than you really do. Also there is fine tuning between mods and boost and how much ethanol you want to run. It's like a seesaw...a little more of this means less of that and a little more of that means less of this. As they are tuning it the will be able to see what their limits are and they can go from there. I'm sure they can figure it out if they're worth their salt.

[arpad_m]

Originally Posted by BlaqWhole

They're welcome to try...

Geez man put the gun away. The hell, 10 years on this forum and you still can't tell when I'm jokingly exaggerating?? Do you know me at all bro?? You're hurting my feelings...again!!

For the record guys, I have an E tune along with the DSX flex fuel sensor. I can go up to E44 with my tune and it made about 30 more RWHP over my 93 octane tune.

But not for nothin, the same guys talking about how great E85 is because it'll "gap" this or that...well so will an EV, lol!! So by your same argument you all should be welcoming EVs with open arms since stock EVs are gonna gap E85 tuned modded ZL1s. Just sayin.

Anyway, OP, any reputable shop should not be having an issue with this. First off they have to disable the code that pops up when you use E85 since it makes the ECU think you have less fuel pressure than you really do. Also there is fine tuning between mods and boost and how much ethanol you want to run. It's like a seesaw...a little more of this means less of that and a little more of that means less of this. As they are tuning it the will be able to see what their limits are and they can go from there. I'm sure they can figure it out if they're worth their salt.

Haha, didn't I jump it again, SORRY Anyway, hope this little banter helps someone out there in the end.