MS3 Ultimate VS E38 Controller For TT Applications

[Better Performance]

I Am Wondering How Many Of You Have Had Excellent Tuning Experience With The Factory E38 ECM With Twin Turbo And Boost Controller Like A Turbosmart E2? My Car Was Originally A L99, Now 427 With 4L80 With PCM of NC Adapter Harness And TCM. I'm A Builder, Not A Tuner, And So Far Getting A Happy Tune Has Been A Unicorn. I Have A Friend On A Pro Stock Team That Suggested A Well Known Tuner In His World, And After Speaking With Him, His Recommendation Was To Switch To The MS3 Ultimate And He Would Be Happy To Help. He Mentioned To Me That He Knows Of More Than Many Cars That Tuners Had Spent A Ridiculous Amount Of Time Trying To Work The Bugs Out Of The Factory E38 ECM On Similar Hybrid Builds, And He Was Not Willing To Help Me With My Car Unless I Converted. Also, He Insisted That I Go With Cable Operated Throttle Control Instead Of Drive By Wire.

Any Thoughts?

My Intention With The Car Is To Upgrade Over A Period Of Time While Driving On The Street And Track As Well. If I Can Get It Dialed In Decent This Summer, It'll Get Caged Next Winter, ETC.

I Would Rather Go Ahead With An Aftermarket Controller Now VS Later If I Will Inevitably Need It In The Long Run.

[Unreal]

Zero reason a e38 can't do everything you want.

If you go aftermarket I would do proefi/haltech/etc that has support for e38 applications.

[Better Performance]

My car has been tuned with HP Tuners interface, it has been to 2 "reputable" shops in my area and the drivability flat out sucks. I fixed the timing tables to reduce underhood Temps, it was 9° at cruise speed and had over 900° heat soak on headers on a easy test drive. They had been battling burned plug wires. It has remote coils mounted underneath with ceramic boots on plug ends. That problem is solved now with the timing tweak, but there is a lot more that needs help. I hauled it 4 hours 1 way last time I had a shop look at it, and after all that, it sat there for several months before they said they didn't want to mess with it. And it isn't a cobbled together piece of crap, either! The car has been together for 2 years and isn't usable due to tuning. Just getting frustrated and want some resolve. I don't want to throw money away trying to fix a problem, but I'm not scared to put money towards a solution. Do you have any recommendations?

[Redlineviper]

Originally Posted by Better Performance

My car has been tuned with HP Tuners interface, it has been to 2 "reputable" shops in my area and the drivability flat out sucks. I fixed the timing tables to reduce underhood Temps, it was 9° at cruise speed and had over 900° heat soak on headers on a easy test drive. They had been battling burned plug wires. It has remote coils mounted underneath with ceramic boots on plug ends. That problem is solved now with the timing tweak, but there is a lot more that needs help. I hauled it 4 hours 1 way last time I had a shop look at it, and after all that, it sat there for several months before they said they didn't want to mess with it. And it isn't a cobbled together piece of crap, either! The car has been together for 2 years and isn't usable due to tuning. Just getting frustrated and want some resolve. I don't want to throw money away trying to fix a problem, but I'm not scared to put money towards a solution. Do you have any recommendations?

Like unreal said it's unlikely you are are need of a different computer. I know guys with stock ecms making 1200-1300 easy. There are some cool bells and whistles with the aftermarket computers though. I can think of at least 5 good tuners that can turn that car around. It makes all the difference in the world and suddenly makes the car fun to own.

[Unreal]

So two tuners didn't know how to tune, and it is the ECUs fault?

Find a tuner. There are at least 3 local 4l80 TT cars all making 1200-1400rwhp that drive like a dream, are reliable, haven't ever melted anything.

What problems do you have know (assuming melting is fixed, which is doubt)?

[Better Performance]

The 2 Tuners That Took A Stab At This Thing Are Suppose To Know What They Are Doing, I Won't Mention Any Names Because I'm Not A Basher, But They Aren't Rookies. That Being Said, I Was Puzzled That A Quick Phone Call To John At Hellion Netted Me The Direction To Go On Cruise Speed Timing To Eliminate The Underhood Inferno... With My Experience With The 3 Supercharged And 1 Twin Turbo Car I Have Built For Customers Over The Last 3 Years, The Tuning Has Been The Biggest Hurdle. The Combinations Have Been Awesome, But The Tuning Has Lacked The Finesse That I Would Be Satisfied With. I Have Enough Work With Builds And Regular Repair Work That I Have Not Been Able To Dive Into Any Tuning And Have Been Trying To Find SOMEONE To Handle This For Me. Have Been Striking Out So Far, The Only Reason I Had Brought Up Going To An Aftermarket Controller Is Because That Was Brought Up To Me By My Current Source In The 1/4 Mile World.
The Funny Thing Is I Haven't Been Looking For The Lowest Bidder. Quite A Bit Of Money Was Spent On This Car When My Customer I Built It For Owned It, And I'm Ashamed To Say That I Have Too, With Very Little Result.

One Of The Main Problems That Has Plagued This Thing Is It Almost Acts Like The DOD Activates At Cruise Speeds And The Wideband Jumps Up To 22.8 As The Engine Chugs.
I, Not Knowing Anything About The Complex To Me Timing Tables, Have The Car Functioning At Cruise Speeds And Approx 1/4 Throttle Without Detonation, And Have Happy Underhood Temps With E85. This Is The Point I Am At Now, So Just Trying To Figure Out What To Do In A Month When I Have The New Cam In And Am Ready To Hit The Road Again...

[ADM PERFORMANCE]

Originally Posted by Better Performance

The 2 Tuners That Took A Stab At This Thing Are Suppose To Know What They Are Doing, I Won't Mention Any Names Because I'm Not A Basher, But They Aren't Rookies. That Being Said, I Was Puzzled That A Quick Phone Call To John At Hellion Netted Me The Direction To Go On Cruise Speed Timing To Eliminate The Underhood Inferno... With My Experience With The 3 Supercharged And 1 Twin Turbo Car I Have Built For Customers Over The Last 3 Years, The Tuning Has Been The Biggest Hurdle. The Combinations Have Been Awesome, But The Tuning Has Lacked The Finesse That I Would Be Satisfied With. I Have Enough Work With Builds And Regular Repair Work That I Have Not Been Able To Dive Into Any Tuning And Have Been Trying To Find SOMEONE To Handle This For Me. Have Been Striking Out So Far, The Only Reason I Had Brought Up Going To An Aftermarket Controller Is Because That Was Brought Up To Me By My Current Source In The 1/4 Mile World.
The Funny Thing Is I Haven't Been Looking For The Lowest Bidder. Quite A Bit Of Money Was Spent On This Car When My Customer I Built It For Owned It, And I'm Ashamed To Say That I Have Too, With Very Little Result.

One Of The Main Problems That Has Plagued This Thing Is It Almost Acts Like The DOD Activates At Cruise Speeds And The Wideband Jumps Up To 22.8 As The Engine Chugs.
I, Not Knowing Anything About The Complex To Me Timing Tables, Have The Car Functioning At Cruise Speeds And Approx 1/4 Throttle Without Detonation, And Have Happy Underhood Temps With E85. This Is The Point I Am At Now, So Just Trying To Figure Out What To Do In A Month When I Have The New Cam In And Am Ready To Hit The Road Again...

Email me your tune if you have hp tuners or efilive.

admperfomance@gmail.com

[Unreal]

That isn't any limits of the factory ECU.

[Better Performance]

Mainly I Was Looking Forward To What I Intend For The Future Of This Car, I Didn't Want To Put A Lot Of Effort Relocating The ECM And Buying An Extension Harness If I Was Going To Have To Eventually Move Into An Aftermarket Controller Anyways. Since I'm Going To Pull The Engine And Tidy Things Up Anyways, I Didn't Want To Hear "You Shoulda Done This Or That" Right After I Got It Back Together. If I Can Use The E38 Efficiently, I Am By All Means On Board With Not Spending The $$'s And Time To Rewire The Whole Thing, And Try To Learn How It All Will Work Together.

Tim

[Unreal]

Stock ecu has to stay either way unless you go full race car. It runs the dash, obd2 controls, talks with bcm, etc. So with a ms3 or any stand alone, if you want to have 1/2 the cars systems working, you still need the e38 in there. If it is a full race car, and your pulling the dash, bcm, abs, etc, then go for it.

[Better Performance]

Gotcha, The Tuner I Was Talking To Has Done A Similar Setup On A Camaro And Basically Just Used The E38 To Keep The Factory Dash And BCM Functions, And Used The MS3 For Engine/Transmission/Boost Management.
I'm Just Going Off Of What I Have Been Told And Past Experience. So Far, No Good...
Not Saying This Is The Way I Should Go, Or That I Have Made My Mind Up. Just Saying That So Far I Have Had No Luck Or Support With Getting This Car Tuned Correctly, And I Know I'm Not Qualified To Goof With It Myself Without A Ton Of Hand Holding.
All My Experience Is With Good Old Carburetor and Distributor. I Do Ok With Those...

[JMI]

I'm sure with the E38 computer with the upgraded operating system that gives you a VE table that you can tailor for your application. You can tune it to run 100% from idle to redline.

[2012LS3VERT]

I concur with the above. Many times I have fixed tunes that were done by "expert tuners" who have been tuning for years. That seems to be the issue, they don't want to learn the more advanced computers like the E38, as they can take longer to tune if you don't have a lot of experience, so they would rather go the easy route, not the route that is best for the customer.

[Better Performance]

Ok, so you guys talked me into keeping the E38...
Where do I go for tuning if I'm in iowa... I have 2 customer cars that are 10 supercharged camaros that need help too...