Too Stiff

[StlRomAniaN]

I think my car is a bit too stiff, but I was wanting to see if anyone has had a familiar experience. My set-up is the following:

• Pedders Xa coilovers
• JPSS Black Magic sway bars (solid 28mm front & solid 32mm rear)

It's great in the big long corners, but I feel like I have no grip in tighter corners causing me to drive a lot slower. It almost takes the fun out of the car. One of the rear tires may be coming off of the ground actually.

Also, I'm unable to go full throttle in a straight line at higher speeds because I feel like the car is very unstable since it does not take bumps well at all.

Has anyone had a similar experience?

[Leo72793]

Originally Posted by StlRomAniaN

I think my car is a bit too stiff, but I was wanting to see if anyone has had a familiar experience. My set-up is the following:

• Pedders Xa coilovers
• JPSS Black Magic sway bars (solid 28mm front & solid 32mm rear)

It's great in the big long corners, but I feel like I have no grip in tighter corners causing me to drive a lot slower. It almost takes the fun out of the car. One of the rear tires may be coming off of the ground actually.

Also, I'm unable to go full throttle in a straight line at higher speeds because I feel like the car is very unstable since it does not take bumps well at all.

Has anyone had a similar experience?

I dont know if these have the same 3 holes like BMR. you might have it set to too high of an anti roll which causes the stiffness. if so, drop it back a hole on the front and rear and drive it seeing if it helps

[StlRomAniaN]

Originally Posted by Leo72793

I dont know if these have the same 3 holes like BMR. you might have it set to too high of an anti roll which causes the stiffness. if so, drop it back a hole on the front and rear and drive it seeing if it helps

I was thinking of doing that as well. I believe I’m set at the middle hole on both bars at the moment. Should I fully soften both the front and rear bar? If so, which way is softer? The hole at the end of the mounting tab or the last hole towards the bar?


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[VR Baron]

Originally Posted by StlRomAniaN

I think my car is a bit too stiff, but I was wanting to see if anyone has had a familiar experience. My set-up is the following:

• Pedders Xa coilovers
• JPSS Black Magic sway bars (solid 28mm front & solid 32mm rear)

It's great in the big long corners, but I feel like I have no grip in tighter corners causing me to drive a lot slower. It almost takes the fun out of the car. One of the rear tires may be coming off of the ground actually.

Also, I'm unable to go full throttle in a straight line at higher speeds because I feel like the car is very unstable since it does not take bumps well at all.

Has anyone had a similar experience?

Yes I can relate. Got rid of all that Pedders stuff for the driving I do. I had the sways and supercars. Same issue. It’s all to stiff for tight corners and autox, especially on crappy parking lot pavement with low grip. Had a lot of messages to Pete on what to settings to use, I adjusted the coilovers every which way to no avail. They are to stiffly valved and the front springs are to stiff for street use IMO. It seems Pedders whole approach with their parts were as you found, for high speed or roadcourses, for that they seem good. For autocross or street you need softer settings.
The rear sway will pull a wheel off the ground all right, in fact from my experience anything over a 1le 28 mm bar will. I autocross this car all year on the same lots and surfaces, the big bars are to stiff . Bars have to let the car roll a bit then take a set,bending into the turn, not darting into it. big bars just seemed to slide then break away with no feel to the car.
What I, and those of us with fifth gens did was switch to adjustable dse bars, set to soft ( I feel close to 25 mm solid front and 28-29mm rear) If I stiffen the front to the stiff setting and the rear to middle it feels good but tends to oversteer, but just a bit to stiff for autocross. That setting only about 1mm stiffer as to bar size then soft but doesn’t take much. Along with dse/jre coilovers set soft. Those or Ridetechs, which I use. These with 300/550 spring rates give a great ride and handling.

[VR Baron]

Originally Posted by StlRomAniaN

I was thinking of doing that as well. I believe I’m set at the middle hole on both bars at the moment. Should I fully soften both the front and rear bar? If so, which way is softer? The hole at the end of the mounting tab or the last hole towards the bar?


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You seem to have the 2010 style sway bars? If jpss bars they are the new design for 2012 and up.The ones I mentioned are 2012 and up fe4 style. If they are the late design your rear bar is not adjustable.Your front bar is the same though as the early design. The settings represent 26,27 and 28 mm dia bar sizes. Even the soft 26 is a bit big. The soft setting on the bar is the hole farthest from the firewall, closest to front of car

[StlRomAniaN]

Originally Posted by VR Baron

Yes I can relate. Got rid of all that Pedders stuff for the driving I do. I had the sways and supercars. Same issue. It’s all to stiff for tight corners and autox, especially on crappy parking lot pavement with low grip. Had a lot of messages to Pete on what to settings to use, I adjusted the coilovers every which way to no avail. They are to stiffly valved and the front springs are to stiff for street use IMO. It seems Pedders whole approach with their parts were as you found, for high speed or roadcourses, for that they seem good. For autocross or street you need softer settings.
The rear sway will pull a wheel off the ground all right, in fact from my experience anything over a 1le 28 mm bar will. I autocross this car all year on the same lots and surfaces, the big bars are to stiff . Bars have to let the car roll a bit then take a set,bending into the turn, not darting into it. big bars just seemed to slide then break away with no feel to the car.
What I, and those of us with fifth gens did was switch to adjustable dse bars, set to soft ( I feel close to 25 mm solid front and 28-29mm rear) If I stiffen the front to the stiff setting and the rear to middle it feels good but tends to oversteer, but just a bit to stiff for autocross. That setting only about 1mm stiffer as to bar size then soft but doesn’t take much. Along with dse/jre coilovers set soft. Those or Ridetechs, which I use. These with 300/550 spring rates give a great ride and handling.

Sigh. Now I have to spend more money. Lol. The setup really doesn’t take street use too well.

Do you have a good drop with those coilovers? I want to make sure I fix the feel of the car while keeping the stance as is.

Do you know what the spring rates were in the Pedders? Every time I lift the car in the air, the front wheels don’t even drop, at all. The rears do a little.


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[StlRomAniaN]

Originally Posted by VR Baron

You seem to have the 2010 style sway bars? If jpss bars they are the new design for 2012 and up.The ones I mentioned are 2012 and up fe4 style. If they are the late design your rear bar is not adjustable.Your front bar is the same though as the early design. The settings represent 26,27 and 28 mm dia bar sizes. Even the soft 26 is a bit big. The soft setting on the bar is the hole farthest from the firewall, closest to front of car

I upgraded my rear LCAs to go to FE4. From what I remember, I got one of the first sets of his when he released them.

Thanks for the info!


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[VR Baron]

Originally Posted by StlRomAniaN

Sigh. Now I have to spend more money. Lol. The setup really doesn’t take street use too well.

Do you have a good drop with those coilovers? I want to make sure I fix the feel of the car while keeping the stance as is.

Do you know what the spring rates were in the Pedders? Every time I lift the car in the air, the front wheels don’t even drop, at all. The rears do a little.


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They say designed for a 1.5” drop. I have mine set to have best handling, driveway clearance, and per ridetech, keep shock travel in the 49-60% range for ride and not to bottom out. For me that all fits in my parameters. I dropped 1” in front and 1.23” rear. Maybe I better say also the stock height from lower wheel lip to fender arch at top, after 14000 miles, was 680mm front and 688 mm rear, on a full tank of gas. Now I am at 657mm front and 660mm rear. On a 1/4 tank rear go’s up to 663. Pretty much where Pedders said to be maximum. Also where their and Hotchkiss springs put you as well. Handles and rides great with the rest of my suspension.

Pedders springs are 450 front, 560 rear. Fronts the main issue, unless you have shocks set soft. A friend has your coilovers and has like 90000 miles on them. He doesn’t mind the ride, but they are worn out and rides softer...lol

I tried all settings combos on mine but were pretty good on smooth roads, but any bad roads or freeways and bounced or to stiff and jarring. Four years of that and either the car go’s or the coilovers

As to bars I would go with dse or maybe the solid 23mm and 28mm rear (stock SS and 1le bars)for better ride and corners. Though they may have more roll then you like. For high speed maybe to soft.Why I went dse. Set soft they seem to be in the middle of those stock sizes and what you have. Set stiffer great for road courses I have been told.

[KillboyPowerhead]

I noticed the same thing with my suspension compared to stock. At lower speeds a stiff suspension won't let the car dive/roll/squat as much so there's less momentum/weight transfer to the intended wheels to help pull you around the corners, accelerate, brake.

As for being unstable at high speeds I haven't took notice to this, although maybe the roads I drive fast on aren't that bad. What is your ride height? Alignment specs? The lower you go the more bump steer you'll induce, and there are obvious negative repercussions to a bad alignment. Wider tires will catch more imperfections in the road too.

Maybe just hit the corners faster

[StlRomAniaN]

Originally Posted by KillboyPowerhead

I noticed the same thing with my suspension compared to stock. At lower speeds a stiff suspension won't let the car dive/roll/squat as much so there's less momentum/weight transfer to the intended wheels to help pull you around the corners, accelerate, brake.

As for being unstable at high speeds I haven't took notice to this, although maybe the roads I drive fast on aren't that bad. What is your ride height? Alignment specs? The lower you go the more bump steer you'll induce, and there are obvious negative repercussions to a bad alignment. Wider tires will catch more imperfections in the road too.

Maybe just hit the corners faster

Sorry for the late reply here. Ride height is low on the Pedders Xa coilovers. From the bottom of the wheel to my fender, I'm at ~645mm based on an old thread of mine. In terms of alignment, here are the specs I run:

Front camber: -2.2
Front toe: 0.0
Rear camber: 0.0
Rear toe: +0.12

With that being said, my front tires are shot and I haven't aligned my car in about two years. I'm sure the alignment is severely off so I'll get that done first.

[StlRomAniaN]

Originally Posted by VR Baron

They say designed for a 1.5” drop. I have mine set to have best handling, driveway clearance, and per ridetech, keep shock travel in the 49-60% range for ride and not to bottom out. For me that all fits in my parameters. I dropped 1” in front and 1.23” rear. Maybe I better say also the stock height from lower wheel lip to fender arch at top, after 14000 miles, was 680mm front and 688 mm rear, on a full tank of gas. Now I am at 657mm front and 660mm rear. On a 1/4 tank rear go’s up to 663. Pretty much where Pedders said to be maximum. Also where their and Hotchkiss springs put you as well. Handles and rides great with the rest of my suspension.

Pedders springs are 450 front, 560 rear. Fronts the main issue, unless you have shocks set soft. A friend has your coilovers and has like 90000 miles on them. He doesn’t mind the ride, but they are worn out and rides softer...lol

I tried all settings combos on mine but were pretty good on smooth roads, but any bad roads or freeways and bounced or to stiff and jarring. Four years of that and either the car go’s or the coilovers

As to bars I would go with dse or maybe the solid 23mm and 28mm rear (stock SS and 1le bars)for better ride and corners. Though they may have more roll then you like. For high speed maybe to soft.Why I went dse. Set soft they seem to be in the middle of those stock sizes and what you have. Set stiffer great for road courses I have been told.

Thanks for the input. After reading your post back in May, I changed the settings on my coilovers. I was surprised to find out I was running 18/30 firmness on all four corners. I decided to just lower it all the way to 0/30 and it rides much better. No loss of handling due to the big sway bars. In fact, the handling is better as the car leans/squats more providing more contact with the road.

[VR Baron]

Originally Posted by StlRomAniaN

Thanks for the input. After reading your post back in May, I changed the settings on my coilovers. I was surprised to find out I was running 18/30 firmness on all four corners. I decided to just lower it all the way to 0/30 and it rides much better. No loss of handling due to the big sway bars. In fact, the handling is better as the car leans/squats more providing more contact with the road.

Cool. I don’t know if 0 setting isn’t to soft. Pete of Pedders did tell me not to go below 5, on compression that is, which you can’t adjust. Lower and rear coilover seals could leak. And I found same thing. Big bars helped control roll on soft coilover settings, though I found best autocross settings were in the 10/12 range.

As to your alignment, you were at 0 in rear camber?? I would be about half of whatever you set the fronts at.

[StlRomAniaN]

Originally Posted by VR Baron

Cool. I don’t know if 0 setting isn’t to soft. Pete of Pedders did tell me not to go below 5, on compression that is, which you can’t adjust. Lower and rear coilover seals could leak. And I found same thing. Big bars helped control roll on soft coilover settings, though I found best autocross settings were in the 10/12 range.

As to your alignment, you were at 0 in rear camber?? I would be about half of whatever you set the fronts at.

I have so much preload on the springs due to the drop that I feel like anything in the upper single digits will make it feel overly stiff. If it leaks, it leaks. I've had these coilovers on since they hit the market.

That, or 0.5, I actually didn't get a chance to look at my official spec sheet in my glovebox. I always forget to check.

[StlRomAniaN]

My rear camber was a -1.0, confirmed. My bad on the misinformation earlier.

Anyways, the more I drive my Camaro, the more I dislike how stiff these sway bars are. I love how flat the car feels in corner, but that feeling is null due to the decreased mechanical grip.

There’s a corner on a track that I used to do 100mph on with just my coilovers. With these sway bars, I can only do 75mph. Any more speed and the tail will whip out. The bars are just too stiff. No reason to add power to a car that can’t handle its current power level (FBO).

I’m working on a project for my M5 currently so I have some time to think about the next step. I’m planning on taking these bars off (28mm solid front and 32mm solid rear) off and replacing them. What do you all recommend from the list below?

OEM SS sways
OEM 1LE sways
OEM ZL1 sways
OEM Z28 sways

All will be the sways with the upgraded mounting point on the RLCAs.