Triple Pump Staging

[eLeSthree]

Originally Posted by larry_g

I'm currently running ID1050Xs and pretty sure they'll be fine with one pump until 5 psi, even on E85.

The only reason I like the idea of running two primary pumps is the redundancy and safety factor if any one of the three fails. I'm willing to tolerate some inefficiency as long as it isn't dangerous to me or the engine.

I'm still looking for a strong argument as to why I absolutely shouldn't run two primary pumps.

Parts are on the way, installation will probably start next weekend. Wiring the pumps is one of the last items and it's an easy change between the two setups, literally swapping the trigger wires at the module.

Either way, I won't put the rear seat and panels back in until after we're done on the dyno in case we need to make a change.



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The best answer I can give you, is that it is not necessary, and it will create additional heat, burn amperage, wear your electrical system unnecessarily, and there is nothing to gain. You only have one fuel pump now, right? You wouldn't add 8 more fuel injectors just to have a backup. So why run a spare pump just because. Try it out if you want, but put your hand on the pump hat after an hour drive and see if its hot. Just think of all the unused fuel being pumped through the system and back into the tank/basket while you're sitting idle. I dont see the upside to it. If your main pump fails, you could pop the rear seat, pull the panel, and move the relay signal wire... not the end of the world. Were talking about the TI Automotive 450. Its in millions of cars as the single primary. But I guess it could fail..

Originally Posted by dreksnot

I just swapped back to two pumps but running a lower fuel pressure. I noticed as I'd get into boost (and it builds quickly) that my FP would start to lower before #2 and #3 pumps kicked on.

How is your setup plumbed? Feed line Y'd into rails, fpr after fuel rails?
sz

Asking because I was getting some weird fp behavior before I plumbed it correctly. I run 60spi base to allow for a little extra headroom from the 1300's.

[larry_g]

Originally Posted by eLeSthree

The best answer I can give you, is that it is not necessary, and it will create additional heat, burn amperage, wear your electrical system unnecessarily, and there is nothing to gain. You only have one fuel pump now, right? You wouldn't add 8 more fuel injectors just to have a backup. So why run a spare pump just because. Try it out if you want, but put your hand on the pump hat after an hour drive and see if its hot. Just think of all the unused fuel being pumped through the system and back into the tank/basket while you're sitting idle. I dont see the upside to it. If your main pump fails, you could pop the rear seat, pull the panel, and move the relay signal wire... not the end of the world. Were talking about the TI Automotive 450. Its in millions of cars as the single primary. But I guess it could fail..

That's a fair argument against doing it. I actually cancelled the Fore order while I continue to flip flop on what my plan is.




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[larry_g]

So here's another theory I need to poke holes in...What if I ran the primary pump off the stock fuel pump wiring and then used Hobbs switches to fire the second and third pumps at full speed using relays?

This way I could use the stock PWM control of the FPCM to keep the primary pump from overworking and heating the fuel during normal driving and sitting in traffic. Then have the second pump trigger as soon as it sees 1-2 psi of boost and then the third at 5-6 psi of boost. This should effectively be the same as running a pair of auxiliary pumps on a stock system.

[eLeSthree]

The 450s arent pwm.

[larry_g]

Originally Posted by eLeSthree

The 450s arent pwm.

Direct from the source "You can PWM them. They’re genuine TI Automotive F90000274 pumps."

[larry_g]

Just heard back that running one pump scaled back using PWM could affect the jet siphon and the ability to keep the bucket full of fuel prior to going to full boost with all three pumps. Not a risk I'm willing to take.

Looks like I'm going to run three relays, one based on the FPCM wire to the original fuel pump relay and two on Hobbs switches so #2 comes on at 1-2 PSI and #3 at 5-6 PSI.

That still gives me redundancy under boost if one of the switches, relays, or pumps fail.

[dreksnot]

Originally Posted by eLeSthree

How is your setup plumbed? Feed line Y'd into rails, fpr after fuel rails?
sz

Asking because I was getting some weird fp behavior before I plumbed it correctly. I run 60spi base to allow for a little extra headroom from the 1300's.

Yes, I am Y'd from the supply line after the fuel filter into the rails, reverse Y'd back to a single right at the FPR which is after the rails. I have my FP sensor located wrong. It's right at the end of one set of rails. I believe I should really put it right at the FPR (just prior).

[brick59]

Originally Posted by larry_g

Just heard back that running one pump scaled back using PWM could affect the jet siphon and the ability to keep the bucket full of fuel prior to going to full boost with all three pumps. Not a risk I'm willing to take.

Looks like I'm going to run three relays, one based on the FPCM wire to the original fuel pump relay and two on Hobbs switches so #2 comes on at 1-2 PSI and #3 at 5-6 PSI.

That still gives me redundancy under boost if one of the switches, relays, or pumps fail.

Close to what i did one pump to run normal, the other two on at 3 to 4 psi using a hobb switch.

[larry_g]

Clean install. I just like to do things differently. Who knows, I may try it anyway.

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[blake-b]

Originally Posted by dreksnot

Yes, I am Y'd from the supply line after the fuel filter into the rails, reverse Y'd back to a single right at the FPR which is after the rails. I have my FP sensor located wrong. It's right at the end of one set of rails. I believe I should really put it right at the FPR (just prior).

You can get a fitting from FORE that allows you to hang the FPR off one end of the rail then you just have to run a line from the other rail to the FPR. You can also run the FP sensor off a port on the FPR (if you have one with the port for that). I was running a magnafuel on my setup.

Very clean install.

[eLeSthree]

Originally Posted by larry_g

Direct from the source "You can PWM them. They’re genuine TI Automotive F90000274 pumps."

Oh ok, I’ve always read they werent. I guess not everything on the internet is true!

Originally Posted by blake-b

You can get a fitting from FORE that allows you to hang the FPR off one end of the rail then you just have to run a line from the other rail to the FPR. You can also run the FP sensor off a port on the FPR (if you have one with the port for that). I was running a magnafuel on my setup.

Very clean install.

I borrowed that idea from your build.