all right guys...please help me figure out the hell went wrong - updated on last post

[TJ91]

Originally Posted by firedruish

I always Rev match before I release the clutch...and i shifted from an up position to down...I am thinking 3rd to 2nd..that part is a bit fuzy.

I truly believe the road treatment was a defining factor...the s.p. officer believed it was the cause period.

I will be better when the final answers are in and i understand what went wrong or what I did wrong. Because the tires locked before I was able to even Rev to match.

Faulty things can happen in cars.
My 07 ford fusion suddenly loses all brake pressure. It took over a year at ford for them to figure out it was the ABS module, it was seem to be a unheard of problem. Scary and had almost cost my life a few times.

So I would not be surprised if there was a mechanical problem like you stated. Could have been a combination of factors all at the same time that caused it.

But good thing your okay and its great to see that you are trying to learn

Adjuster has come and approved 2300 in repairs including 2 new rims. They will begin the tear down process on Monday and hopefully I will have more answers in the week coming. Oh How I NEED to be more patient. Wont get my beast back until the week of the 19th.

[Norm Peterson]

Pictures would have been nice, but I doubt that any of the marks would have persisted as other traffic used the ramp. It would have taken a good bit of "presence of mind" to have snapped them immediately after the incident before anything else had driven there.


Norm

[SSGUNNER]

Originally Posted by Comrando

Is that a nail in the right front?

Looks like a rock.

Originally Posted by Norm Peterson

Pictures would have been nice, but I doubt that any of the marks would have persisted as other traffic used the ramp. It would have taken a good bit of "presence of mind" to have snapped them immediately after the incident before anything else had driven there.


Norm

The state patrol officer went up and drew a sketch and took pictures. the fresh layer of mag left the road black and shinny...no marks left.

On the remark of a nail...no it was gravel

[slow72]

Originally Posted by Scalded Dog

Wait: the OP says that the pics are of the car with the steering wheel "set and straight." The driver's side front wheel looks ready to drive straight ahead, but the passenger wheel looks ready to made a hard right turn. The tiny little impact into the guardrail (minor body damage, and on the driver's side) would not have broken the steering components on the passenger side, but if the steering components on the passenger side broke FIRST (for whatever reason: Previous damage, manufacturing defect, whatever), this would explain the entire malfunction: Complete loss of control, ABS lights going all Las Vegas, and so forth.

I presume the curve turned to the right? Complete loss of steering/ traction would send you into the K-rail, making impact with the driver's side.

30 in a suggested- 25 turn is not unreasonable. 53 degrees in an Interstate that's been de- iced for many days, and driven on by thousands of vehicles? Ice was not a factor, I'd say.

I believe that a tie- rod, or other steering component on the passenger side, failed BEFORE the impact/ accident... this CAUSED the accident.

^ This.

Why has only one person noticed that the tires are pointing different directions? The minor hit to the barricade (on the drivers side) did not break that tie rod/steering rack. Steer tires pointing different directions would very easily cause a spin.

[Norm Peterson]

I noticed the front wheels, but can't eliminate the thought that if one or both left front lower links bent or buckled that the left wheel could move straight inward. This would push the rack internals to the right without necessarily disturbing the rack's shell or its attachment to the chassis . . . and still steer the right front tire as shown. An inch or more at the tierod is a significant amount of steering, and this would have been accompanied by the steering wheel being jerked as if being suddenly steered right by unseen hands. Expecting firedruish to specifically recall this happening might be a bit much.


Norm

[slow72]

Originally Posted by Norm Peterson

I noticed the front wheels, but can't eliminate the thought that if one or both left front lower links bent or buckled that the left wheel could move straight inward. This would push the rack internals to the right without necessarily disturbing the rack's shell or its attachment to the chassis . . . and still steer the right front tire as shown. An inch or more at the tierod is a significant amount of steering, and this would have been accompanied by the steering wheel being jerked as if being suddenly steered right by unseen hands. Expecting firedruish to specifically recall this happening might be a bit much.


Norm

This is true. Looking at the left front again in the picture, the bottom of the wheel seems pushed in compared to the top. Would also explain the very little body damage if the wheel took the hit. I just find it hard to believe that a downshift at 40 (even into 1st) would lock up the rear and make the ABS go bonkers. Stranger things have happened though.

[xfcgjxcfhjy]

yep, sounds like a compression skid to me as well but pics of the skid marks would be helpfull

Originally Posted by Comrando

Noticed the difference. Attributed to car being towed and images taken at different times.
OP will have to clarify.

Those two photos where taken as soon as I had a safe place to park on I-70.

It took another hour for the tow to show which is how I know that the State Patrol officer was unable to take pics of the skid marks. He showed me his camera for work... the road is black and shinny with no skid marks.

Insurance adjuster and shop confirmed that rear tires where completely locked and not turning based on the road rash the rim and tires have on them

[revived]

Originally Posted by Norm Peterson

Momentarily lockup or at least partial lockup will happen unless you do a good enough rev match. 40 mph is way higher than reasonable for grabbing 1st even if it's mechanically safe to do so under better road conditions.

Even a little chirp of the rear tires on a slide-y downgrade can bring on what happened here, and if there isn't enough grip for TC or ST to work with they can't save you. If you're on the brakes and the front tires find braking grip while the back tires are still sliding sideways the situation can get a lot worse in a big hurry.


Norm

No it won't thats B.S.

40 holding break while downshifting to 1st won't cause a "compression slide".


I've done it at 70mph and it will lock trust me not 40... Money shifted it luckily I didn't crash and didn't break anything. 1st gear can rev these cars far past 50mph and your trying to say the op caused a compression lock of his rear tires that's not the case.

[slow72]

Originally Posted by Comrando

Noticed the difference. Attributed to car being towed and images taken at different times.
OP will have to clarify.

The OP clarified it in post #1. You can also see how the car has been reversed and the front tire skidded along in the gravel.

[Norm Peterson]

Originally Posted by revived

No it won't thats B.S.

40 holding break while downshifting to 1st won't cause a "compression slide".


I've done it at 70mph and it will lock trust me not 40... Money shifted it luckily I didn't crash and didn't break anything. 1st gear can rev these cars far past 50mph and your trying to say the op caused a compression lock of his rear tires that's not the case.

Under low grip conditions it doesn't take very much to get a downshift chirp out of the rear tires, and when there is little grip the tires will not return to speed as quickly as they will when it's warm and dry. OP's driving conditions just make it a whole lot easier and more likely.

FWIW, I learned a long time ago that compression braking in a lower gear can result in the tail wanting to pass the front on a downgrade if conditions are slippery enough - and that's even being in that lower gear to begin with, and having only about 230 cubic inches of low-compression inline 6 for "engine braking" (Brockton, MA, circa 1966). Throw in a poorly rev-matched downshift to a low-grip downhill situation and a momentary partial lockup of the drive tires is virtually guaranteed.

Calling BS is to deny that somebody just might understand the physics behind it all better than you do, and/or has direct experience with the situation as well. That kind of disbelief is not well-placed and could ultimately become self-defeating.


Norm

[1hevy_chevy]

Originally Posted by TX/ZL1

Now I'm confused.
You're doing 40mph and you decide to downshift. You had to be in 4th gear and you missed 3rd and pulled it over to 1st. You would have immediately known that due to the engine sound, the immediate slowing of the car, and the tac taking a pretty quick swing to the right.
I don't understand what the whole "what happened?" thing is about.
Maybe I'm missing something, but 4th to 1st is always challenging.

Correct me if I'm wrong but, I don't think our cars let us into first going faster than 25... I have a 1ls and unless I FORCE IT into 1st at 40mph, it wont. and even if I did I have a feeling it will break something or grind pretty bad., because it takes EFFORT to do that lol It will only go into first once im coasting around less than 10mph or obviously dead stop.