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Old 11-01-2015, 09:57 PM   #603
cvp33
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Originally Posted by Crushinator View Post
Done? Yeah sure pal.
I see how this works...sport.
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Old 11-01-2015, 10:24 PM   #604
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I'll elaborate. The only thing keeping the ZL1 from matching the Z28 VIR full course times times is tire and wheels. Said another way, if the ZL1 had the same tire/wheel combo as the Z28 it would be able to match its VIR Lightning Lap times. The two cars are within 6 seconds of one another. The wider track rubber, lighter wheels and the fact that VIR was repaved after the ZL1 ran its times and before the Z28 ran gave the Z28 a HUGE advantage.
Anyone whose run there before and after will tell you that their times are faster post-paving, with 6 sections widened up to 6'.

So again;

1) Give the ZL1 wider tires
2) Give the ZL1 dedicated track rubber
3) Give the ZL1 lighter wheels (reduce unsprung weight)
4) Let the ZL1 rerun the Lightning Laps on the repaved and widened track versus what it ran in 2013

And yes, it will make up those 6 seconds.
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Old 11-01-2015, 10:37 PM   #605
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Originally Posted by cvp33 View Post
I'll elaborate. The only thing keeping the ZL1 from matching the Z28 VIR full course times times is tire and wheels. Said another way, if the ZL1 had the same tire/wheel combo as the Z28 it would be able to match its VIR Lightning Lap times. The two cars are within 6 seconds of one another. The wider track rubber, lighter wheels and the fact that VIR was repaved after the ZL1 ran its times and before the Z28 ran gave the Z28 a HUGE advantage.
Anyone whose run there before and after will tell you that their times are faster post-paving, with 6 sections widened up to 6'.

So again;

1) Give the ZL1 wider tires
2) Give the ZL1 dedicated track rubber
3) Give the ZL1 lighter wheels (reduce unsprung weight)
4) Let the ZL1 rerun the Lightning Laps on the repaved and widened track versus what it ran in 2013

And yes, it will make up those 6 seconds.
The ZL1 cannot match the Z/28 in WEIGHT, aero, suspension, brakes, wheels and tires. The ONLY advantage the ZL1 has on a road course is more power and that will fade away with heat soak.
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Old 11-01-2015, 10:46 PM   #606
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Originally Posted by JusticePete View Post
The ZL1 cannot match the Z/28 in WEIGHT, aero, suspension, brakes, wheels and tires. The ONLY advantage the ZL1 has on a road course is more power and that will fade away with heat soak.
Just need 1 lap and VIR is a great place to have more power. The Z28 is definitely the better track weapon, just not 6 seconds better.

And I know all about heat soak. I run my CTS-V coupe at VIR every chance I get. I run 2:15 to 2:17's, my buddy's SS Camaro runs 2:13 to 2:15's. More rubber (295 to my 275), lighter by 350+lbs, normally aspirated and frankly he's a better driver.
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Old 11-01-2015, 11:35 PM   #607
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Well, put your friends wheels/tires on your car. Pull your interior and trunk stuff, and your hood for cooling. Then let your friend rip it around VIR, he should get 2:10s easy.
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Old 11-02-2015, 07:11 AM   #608
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And speaking of tires: unlike a blower, they are consumables. Guys that seriously track their cars go through multi sets per season. So, unlike a blower, they can choose whatever suites them best. The point is, that tires are THE biggest differentiator of TRACK performance (bar only the driver). and since these are TRACK comparisons...well...you see where I am going with it.
It's a slippery slope once you start doing 'what-if's', because that's where the realm of modifications begins. And unless you're racing under some sanctioning body's ruleset there aren't many limits.

If I was to seriously track some car, truly seriously, just about everything that affects performance would be considered a 'consumable'. For a truly serious ZL1, a more efficient blower (less intake air heating) should probably be on the to-do list from the get-go even though the actual swap would happen somewhat later. Like maybe after you get sick of having timing pulled in the middle of a possible PB hot lap halfway through a session.

It costs money to be serious, how serious do you want to be?


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Old 11-02-2015, 12:45 PM   #609
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I guess everyone that has an LSA engine gets offended by the Z/28.

Last edited by Crushinator; 11-02-2015 at 12:57 PM.
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Old 11-02-2015, 04:58 PM   #610
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So much hate on the z/28 from fellow Camaro owners, makes me sad. Why cant everyone just appreciate it for what it is. No one forced to guys to buy a zl1 over a z/28 they are both great cars with different design intents. At the end of the day all the internet bench marks are done with production cars with OEM spec equipment. I don't spend time on the zl1 forums but I highly doubt there are a bunch of z/28 owners over there talking about "oh well the z/28 would be faster in straight line than the zl1 if it had a supercharger" and if I am mistaken then we have bad apples on both sides of the fence.
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Old 11-02-2015, 06:34 PM   #611
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Quote:
Originally Posted by cvp33 View Post
I'll elaborate. The only thing keeping the ZL1 from matching the Z28 VIR full course times times is tire and wheels. Said another way, if the ZL1 had the same tire/wheel combo as the Z28 it would be able to match its VIR Lightning Lap times. The two cars are within 6 seconds of one another. The wider track rubber, lighter wheels and the fact that VIR was repaved after the ZL1 ran its times and before the Z28 ran gave the Z28 a HUGE advantage.
Anyone whose run there before and after will tell you that their times are faster post-paving, with 6 sections widened up to 6'.

So again;

1) Give the ZL1 wider tires
2) Give the ZL1 dedicated track rubber
3) Give the ZL1 lighter wheels (reduce unsprung weight)
4) Let the ZL1 rerun the Lightning Laps on the repaved and widened track versus what it ran in 2013

And yes, it will make up those 6 seconds.
Throw a cam in the Z/28 to close the power gap and watch the Z/28 run away.
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Old 11-02-2015, 06:36 PM   #612
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Not offended in any way. Hell, I'm getting beat by an SS, the Z28 would only make that worse. Just need an asterisk next to those post paving times and I'm good.
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Old 11-02-2015, 08:01 PM   #613
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Okay, here's part of the article from Motor Trend's first test of the '14 Z/28.

Randy on the Track
The track was a little bit wet because it had rained all night. The Nissan was first to run, and after four hot laps, Randy's best time around Barber's 2.4-mile circuit was 1:36.45. Next up was the potent Porsche, and it clicked off a quicker lap time of 1:36.34, beating the GT-R Track by 0.11 second. Finally, it was the Camaro's time to shine, but the best Randy could muster was 1:37.28. So there you go. The Camaro Z/28 lost to the bonkers Nissan and the German superfreak. The Chevy put up a good fight, but America, it seems, simply can't compete.
Just kidding!
Turns out we had the tire pressures set wrong. After dropping 6 psi per wheel, Randy went back out and knocked over a second off his lap. Yes, friends, despite having less power, an antiquated row-your-own transmission, and only RWD, the Camaro Z/28 laid down a time of 1:36.17, beating the Porsche by a larger margin (0.17 second) than the Turbo S clipped Godzilla (0.11 second). I went into this comparison thinking the Z/28 would be pretty damn great, but, at the end of the day, not as skilled nor as fleet as the Nissan or Porsche.
How is this possible? Because instead of protecting Corvette -- say, the way Porsche protects the 911 from the Cayman -- Chevrolet turned the Camaro team loose and allowed it to build the best Z/28 it could. If you break down the car to its parts, it's a race car for the street. It's got Recaro buckets, Pankl connecting rods, Mahle pistons, Brembo carbon-ceramic brakes (co-developed and shared with the upcoming Z06), and Multimatic dynamic spool valve shocks. But it's not just a name-brand collection of parts, and the Z/28 is no tuner. It stands as one of absolutely the best track-focused cars in the world. A Camaro engineer ran around the Nürburgring Nordschleife (where the Z/28 was developed) in 7:37.47 in the rain. In dry conditions? "About neck and neck with the GT3," as Oppenheiser tells it. That's a 7:25 lap. Whatever way you slice it, beating the Turbo S and GT-R on this track is an absolutely incredible accomplishment. Hats off to Mr. Oppenheiser and his team of track rat engineers for achieving -- in my mind at least -- the unthinkable.

So this is all because of the tires huh?
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Old 11-02-2015, 08:37 PM   #614
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Was commenting on the VIR Lightning lap times, not Nurburgrings. And yes, I stand by it. Swap the wheels and tires to something Z28-like versus the bad year G2's and let the ZL1 run on the repaved circuit and yes it will not be a 6 second difference.
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Old 11-02-2015, 08:47 PM   #615
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Originally Posted by cvp33 View Post
Was commenting on the VIR Lightning lap times, not Nurburgrings. And yes, I stand by it. Swap the wheels and tires to something Z28-like versus the bad year G2's and let the ZL1 run on the repaved circuit and yes it will not be a 6 second difference.
The tires on the ZL1 and 1LE are excellent tires. OUTSTANDING tires if you know how to select them. The GYs on these models, like all tires, have a date of manufacture on them. Unlike most other tires, these special blended to GM spec for these specific cars, age starting the day they are made. When they are six months old they have lost roughly 1/4 their grip as the compound continues post cure. This is not from driving or use. It is post cure and would occur if they were sitting in a living room as decorations. In a year the post cure cuts the initial grip by half. A fresh set of just out the the mold 1LE or ZL1 spec GYs have AWESOME grip. I can assure you that the TEAM Camaro engineers were well aware f this when the ZL1 testing was done at the Ring and used fresh tires.

It is far more than just the wheels and tires.
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Old 11-02-2015, 08:52 PM   #616
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I was not impressed with the G2's. I switched my ZL1 to Michelin Pilot Supersports and they felt way better to me. Better grip at the limit, higher limit and much better in transitions loading/unloading the car's suspension. Would think that the Z28 OEM's are better still. I could be wrong though, maybe GM didn't pick the best tire/wheel for their dedicated track weapon. Maybe it's as you all say and there is no advantage to swapping these? Guess will never know. As for the repaving at VIR, certainly you've run enough there to know that the track is faster post-repave.
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