Why can't we make honest reviews?

[Snoman]

Originally Posted by SSE 4 2SS

If I may...
...
...

None of the moderators on this site receive a penny from the vendors or site ownership. We volunteer our time as members that enjoyed the site and were asked if we wanted to help run the site. Having said that, there are times when we would like to fire off at members and vendors as if we were not beholden to a specific standard. At the same time, we have to keep the site friendly and family oriented. It can be a pain in the backside but we do this and more... Who do you imagine runs in the Camaro Fests... It can take a year or more to plan one of these events. We use volunteers in the form of local cars clubs when the opportunity arises but other than that, we plan, organize and manage the events and at the same time we listen to and try to accommodate the individual members since you are the reason for this site.

In closing, we don't censor legitimate postings about any vendor, despite the perception you may feel. We don't censor vendors from replying to those who feel wronged. However, when it degrades into name calling, bash fests, piling on events, disrespectful posting or there are multiple threads related to the same topic some even posted in wrong areas, we take action. If the thread starts with a friend of a friend of an acquaintance I knew 4 years ago said blah blah blah, about a member or a vendor, we will probably take action. and the op or the others committing the offense will not like the result... is this censorship, maybe, but it's in the interest of keeping the site informative without outright BS... There are plenty of other sites where that can be accomplished.

For what its worth, there are a large number of sponsoring vendors that are no longer here due to shady practices, but those decisions were not made based on one or two pissed off people that can't figure out what they wanted in the first place, not when there are literally hundreds of folks that step in to defend their practices. We also respect the legal ramifications of allowing bash fests to carry on... If the vendors lawyers tell them to clam up, we respect that. We don't pry for answers. We also don't tolerate people flying off the handle with half cocked stories before both sides are heard.

I apologize for rambling, but it galls me and others when people make unsubstantiated statements about the way this site is run when they have no clue about the behind the scenes stuff.

Can't thank you all enough.

[LT1Zob]

Originally Posted by SSE 4 2SS

If I may... We have a vendor review section specifically for this reason. I you feel like a shop/vendor has done you right, or done you wrong, feel free to post up about it. Lord knows I could.

However, there are people that think its ok to post anywhere on the forum, or on multiple sub-forums. Then there are the folks that sign up just to pile on, to spread "their word" as far as possible with no substantiation.

I work closely with the shop that works on my car, and every once in a while we have customers come in, who have been to multiple shops and with myriad parts that don't work together... Thy want miracles and get pissed off when it doesn't happen. You can't mix and match parts based on a manufacturers HP claims and add them all together and have that as a goal. But we see this often. My builder tuner stays off of any and all forums for the very reason that people who don't know what thy want can't be pleased. Why, well they read a hot rod magazine or some off the wall comment on a forum and take it as gospel. This creates hard feelings when they don't get the expected results. There are literally about ten members and maybe that many vendors on this forum that I listen to and whom I value their opinions. The rest, keyboard commandos and those that regurgitate info they read as gospel.

For example some shop tunes a car, turns the boost up way beyond the design tolerances of the components, make one glory pull getting lucky with it not scattering the motor, and they make a thread about it... Now everyone that is hoping for a cheap easy great build thinks they can repeat this on their daily driver with powdered rods and factory pistons. They end up going to a shop and flashing money around and stating that's what they want, because so and so did it and it's possible... Some shops, the one I use for example, turn them away, but for every shop that does that, there are more that will take the money... I see people often coming in with a car marginally built for a quarter mile wanting to run a land speed event and they go out bouncing the motor off the rev limiter for insane distances, and wonder why they end up with a rod sticking out of the side of the block. I also see people cold start their car at a bar and grill car gathering/show and bounce it off the rev limiter and if it lets loose its the shops fault. I call BS... I will always call BS...

People fail to understand the cost of building a reliable car, and that at some point its no longer considered a daily driver... They put X blower kit on a factory engine, then put smaller pulleys on it, then add nitrous, and meth with a tune requiring meth, then cheap out on the meth pump, or the nitrous system, and blame others for the failures that are sure to happen. I call BS...

Ive spent probably as much money on my car as anyone on this forum, and I have a car that while technically it's a street car (registered and insured) it's not a street friendly car... It takes many more steps and a lot more time than the average performance just to start it, much less drive it... I take it about 10 to 15 minutes down the street for a car gathering about once every other month or so...

Now lets get to forum specific problems... In this instant gratification drama driven society, we tend to have uninvolved bystanders jumping in on the topic just to drive the rage. We as mentioned before have people join the site to pile on... be it a vendor or a member/owner. Google most any topic on Camaro's and I tend to find the top responses links to this forum.

Then we have former banned members, both owners and vendors that try to sneak back in and pile on a former competitor in the case of vendors, or some "hated" members they feel slighted them. It creates name calling, bickering (not debate) butt hurt feelers and myriad other problems.

None of the moderators on this site receive a penny from the vendors or site ownership. We volunteer our time as members that enjoyed the site and were asked if we wanted to help run the site. Having said that, there are times when we would like to fire off at members and vendors as if we we're not beholden to a specific standard. At the same time, we have to keep the site friendly and family oriented. It can be a pain in the backside but we do this and more... Who do you imagine runs in the Camaro Fests... It can take a year or more to plan one of these events. We use volunteers in the form of local cars clubs when the opportunity arises but other than that, we plan, organize and manage the events and at the same time we listen to and try to accommodate the individual members since you are the reason for this site.

In closing, we don't censor legitimate postings about any vendor, despite the perception you may feel. We don't censor vendors from replying to those who feel wronged. However, when it degrades into name calling, bash fests, piling on events, disrespectful posting or there are multiple threads related to the same topic some even posted in wrong areas, we take action. If the thread starts with a friend of a friend of an acquaintance I knew 4 years ago said blah blah blah, about a member or a vendor, we will probably take action. and the op or the others committing the offense will not like the result... is this censorship, maybe, but it's in the interest of keeping the site informative without outright BS... There are plenty of other sites where that can be accomplished.

For what its worth, there are a large number of sponsoring vendors that are no longer here due to shady practices, but those decisions were not made based on one or two pissed off people that can't figure out what they wanted in the first place, not when there are literally hundreds of folks that step in to defend their practices. We also respect the legal ramifications of allowing bash fests to carry on... If the vendors lawyers tell them to clam up, we respect that. We don't pry for answers. We also don't tolerate people flying off the handle with half cocked stories before both sides are heard.

I apologize for rambling, but it galls me and others when people make unsubstantiated statements about the way this site is run when they have no clue about the behind the scenes stuff.

I have learned more from this site than every other source combined about my previous V6 and current V8. I've met a couple of the mods over the years, but don't know most of you personally. I think if anything, I'd say members get to run their mouths way over the limit here. Been pretty POed a couple of times recently with a couple of vendors being unfairly attacked by not the customer, but the customer's friend's brother's cousin or some similar B.S. relationship. If you have NOT had a direct relationship with that vendor, who the hell are you to badmouth them? Seems like you guys should thin the herd a bit by being a bit more liberal with suspensions and bans. The general discussions section has slowly been hijacked by unemployed and retired clowns who jibber jabber all day long about absolute non sense - argue about v6 vs v8, 13 vs 14 tail lights, catch cans, etc. Just saying, maybe thin out the herd a bit.

In all seriousness though, thanks to you guys who have worked and continue to work hard to put such a great resource together. For those of us who are passionate about our Camaros, there's no better place to be

[GetYouOne]

Thanks to those who make this site what it is and very informative.

[Dizzy82]

Originally Posted by gzobian

I have learned more from this site than every other source combined about my previous V6 and current V8. I've met a couple of the mods over the years, but don't know most of you personally. I think if anything, I'd say members get to run their mouths way over the limit here. Been pretty POed a couple of times recently with a couple of vendors being unfairly attacked by not the customer, but the customer's friend's brother's cousin or some similar B.S. relationship. If you have NOT had a direct relationship with that vendor, who the hell are you to badmouth them? Seems like you guys should thin the herd a bit by being a bit more liberal with suspensions and bans. The general discussions section has slowly been hijacked by unemployed and retired clowns who jibber jabber all day long about absolute non sense - argue about v6 vs v8, 13 vs 14 tail lights, catch cans, etc. Just saying, maybe thin out the herd a bit.

In all seriousness though, thanks to you guys who have worked and continue to work hard to put such a great resource together. For those of us who are passionate about our Camaros, there's no better place to be

[BlackSmoke]

Politics are deep everywhere and this site is no exception. I speak the truth about good and bad transactions. I do not think it's so much fear of someone being banned etc. I think it's the constant backlash from other members. Many people want to use this part of the forum simply because that's why it exists.

It's like many members take it personal that another member had a bad experience. Those members that think a vendor they have used a few times are just perfect. They just can't do anyone harm there is just no way. That's ridiculous and that is what brings the silly drama and high school behaivor to this ADULT site. Members need to respect other members period.

Members have no business high jacking a thread just to down the member. Some has way too much time on their hands. Any OP really doesn't care what members have to say about their beloved vendor. A member posts a bad experience to help others from experiencing bad service. These vendor roadies was not there, wasn't their money, their time and the roadie didn't deal with the frustration so how is this the roadies business at all?? Because they placed 2 orders in 3 years and the vendor did a good job?? Ridiculous.

I have seen this over and over. People want to share their story for a reason and that's not to be picked apart, downed and mistreated. Anyone here should have the right to post good or bad without this play ground bullying.

If it wasn't for these roadies we would see many many more postings here good and bad. If you are afraid your precious vendor is being called out by a customer then you have a problem there. Do not come here to stir up drama. If it is a vendor that's a sponsor they have the same opportunity to reply to a review and they should. We don't see that much here and why should they?? Their roadies have that covered even though they know nothing about the situation. The vendor does so if they care about their customers happiness with their services they should be here replying. Not replying to the roadies but the CUSTOMER.

I like to think we are grown men and women that use this site to learn or to teach others. Adult members should have compassion for a member treated poorly by a company. Replying with a way to make the situation better by advice. These people who love drama should not be over here unless they have something good to say about a experience. The roadies love to brown nose the vendor and the admins. They think it makes look better, cool being a cheerleader on here for bad serious. Why? I have no idea they may be hoping for a free t-shirt or something. It's very sad...

OP I believe your story and these thinks do happen. The thing to always remember. Companies that sell products that Camaro owners want are a dime a dozen. I been there and I was so aggravated as a new customer I made the decision I would not use them again. That was a few years ago and I never used them again but there was no loss of vendors by a long shot and I have ordered a ton of products. Good luck.

[bleavens1962]

Well said...

[Snoman]

Originally Posted by bleavens1962

Well said...

[BlackSmoke]

Originally Posted by Snoman

I rest my case. A member agrees with my more than fair statement and now he's called crazy.. so silly.. Again I rest my case.

[bleavens1962]

Trolls troll, its what they do

[Snoman]

Originally Posted by BlackSmoke

I rest my case. A member agrees with my more than fair statement and now he's called crazy.. so silly.. Again I rest my case.

Boosted ended the thread above, there is nothing more that can be mentioned to add any further value here.

[bleavens1962]

Best thing about this forum is that neither you nor I decide for anyone else what adds or doesn't add value to a thread. Have a nice day...

[LT1Zob]

Originally Posted by BlackSmoke

Politics are deep everywhere and this site is no exception. I speak the truth about good and bad transactions. I do not think it's so much fear of someone being banned etc. I think it's the constant backlash from other members. Many people want to use this part of the forum simply because that's why it exists.

It's like many members take it personal that another member had a bad experience. Those members that think a vendor they have used a few times are just perfect. They just can't do anyone harm there is just no way. That's ridiculous and that is what brings the silly drama and high school behaivor to this ADULT site. Members need to respect other members period.

Members have no business high jacking a thread just to down the member. Some has way too much time on their hands. Any OP really doesn't care what members have to say about their beloved vendor. A member posts a bad experience to help others from experiencing bad service. These vendor roadies was not there, wasn't their money, their time and the roadie didn't deal with the frustration so how is this the roadies business at all?? Because they placed 2 orders in 3 years and the vendor did a good job?? Ridiculous.

I have seen this over and over. People want to share their story for a reason and that's not to be picked apart, downed and mistreated. Anyone here should have the right to post good or bad without this play ground bullying.

If it wasn't for these roadies we would see many many more postings here good and bad. If you are afraid your precious vendor is being called out by a customer then you have a problem there. Do not come here to stir up drama. If it is a vendor that's a sponsor they have the same opportunity to reply to a review and they should. We don't see that much here and why should they?? Their roadies have that covered even though they know nothing about the situation. The vendor does so if they care about their customers happiness with their services they should be here replying. Not replying to the roadies but the CUSTOMER.

I like to think we are grown men and women that use this site to learn or to teach others. Adult members should have compassion for a member treated poorly by a company. Replying with a way to make the situation better by advice. These people who love drama should not be over here unless they have something good to say about a experience. The roadies love to brown nose the vendor and the admins. They think it makes look better, cool being a cheerleader on here for bad serious. Why? I have no idea they may be hoping for a free t-shirt or something. It's very sad...

OP I believe your story and these thinks do happen. The thing to always remember. Companies that sell products that Camaro owners want are a dime a dozen. I been there and I was so aggravated as a new customer I made the decision I would not use them again. That was a few years ago and I never used them again but there was no loss of vendors by a long shot and I have ordered a ton of products. Good luck.

First, you have hell of a taste in cars, a 2013 1LE, well done. Second, although I think OP's rhetoric is way off, I've never seen anyone banned for describing their experience, I respect him not naming the shop. Third, there have been many frauds and rip-off artists exposed over the years in this specific section. Those of us who frequent this site always keep an eye on this section.
But please re-read post #1. This is not his experience. He knows people that have had issues. I don't know what you do for a living, but would you be ok with internet trolls destroying your business over hearsay? That's insane. I don't need anyone's free T shirt sir, they can keep it. But as a member, I won't sit idly by as you or anyone else badmouths and destroys someone's reputation and business - NOT based on your own experience - but based on hearsay. What your understanding of your cousin's baby mama's experience with a specific business or vendor is, doesn't belong here. Only your personal experience with proof does. That's what this section is designed for. I bought several items over the summer, was going to use a certain vendor I did business with previously, but after reading several first hand horror stories of what they had become in the recent months in this section (not rumors, first hand experiences), I spent my $ with a different vendor.

[BlackSmoke]

Originally Posted by gzobian

First, you have hell of a taste in cars, a 2013 1LE, well done. Second, although I think OP's rhetoric is way off, I've never seen anyone banned for describing their experience, I respect him not naming the shop. Third, there have been many frauds and rip-off artists exposed over the years in this specific section. Those of us who frequent this site always keep an eye on this section.
But please re-read post #1. This is not his experience. He knows people that have had issues. I don't know what you do for a living, but would you be ok with internet trolls destroying your business over hearsay? That's insane. I don't need anyone's free T shirt sir, they can keep it. But as a member, I won't sit idly by as you or anyone else badmouths and destroys someone's reputation and business - NOT based on your own experience - but based on hearsay. What your understanding of your cousin's baby mama's experience with a specific business or vendor is, doesn't belong here. Only your personal experience with proof does. That's what this section is designed for. I bought several items over the summer, was going to use a certain vendor I did business with previously, but after reading several first hand horror stories of what they had become in the recent months in this section (not rumors, first hand experiences), I spent my $ with a different vendor.

I understand nothing happened to the OP and I agree that hearsay is useless. I read his post as a simple question. A question which many members want to ask or have. Because he is simply asking a question not pointing anyone out, not "badmouthing" or "destroying" anyone - What don't you understand? You are speaking about all these things yet NONE of it has happened in this thread? I don't get why this is so hard and why you and others are looking way too far into his question. Who is he bashing sir?? Could you name me a few?? How about name me one??

He is asking a simple, respectful, mature question man. All you guys get your panties in a wad and troll the question by going off towards the OP. This really makes sense to you? Seriously? You are fighting for a imaginary company in your mind that is not listed in this thread at all. I repeat NOONE should get lashings from you or anyone else when a member asks a honest question so he can understand why reviews can't be posted being this is the section for that.

It's not just here in this section. It's common on the site that members are bashed by asking a question or telling a story. It's not hard to find someone getting attacked for no reason whatsoever. I left this behavior behind in grade school. I watch the forums myself and I am one of few who will stand up against the grown bullies on here. Its typically the same people that I see very often. I know who they are and through chats with friends made on here others know who they are too. One just happens to be right here in this thread doing what they do best.

I owned my own company for years, a very successful company at that and I fired more than one FEMALE not MALE employees because they brought drama to the work place. There will be circumstances of members trashing a member or company every where they can. It will catch up to people like that but this OP is NOT one of those people.

[BlackSmoke]

Originally Posted by bleavens1962

Best thing about this forum is that neither you nor I decide for anyone else what adds or doesn't add value to a thread. Have a nice day...

Well said and accurate.