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Old 11-01-2011, 09:32 PM   #29
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To answer the OP's question; Thats on a need to know basis, so obviously you won't. Not everyone is in the loop. Don't feel left out. I say go with the flow...
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Old 11-01-2011, 09:32 PM   #30
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Gm should give anyone who payed taxes that year a $5,000 discount for every car they purchase for the rest of their life.
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Old 11-01-2011, 09:33 PM   #31
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Originally Posted by OldScoolCamaro View Post
To answer the OP's question; Thats on a need to know basis, so obviously you won't. Not everyone is in the loop. Don't feel left out. I say go with the flow...
HAHAHAHAHA!!
I forgot what the original post was about! I had to go back and look HAHA!
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Old 11-01-2011, 09:35 PM   #32
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Which they have been, and will be...as long as people here stop thinking that "GM should help us out."

GM is in this business to turn a profit, not do favors for people. It would do well for a lot of people on this site to remember that.
Agreed.

I just wanted to make it clear that I do expect GM to show gratitude. AND those people who's jobs were saved.

NO, not gratitude of cutting prices to a stupid level but I here, on this forum and other places, act as if GM is a victim. Any car company who has to deal with 40% consumer drop off is gonna struggle but they still got saved by the Feds. And at a cost to all of us. So they are not a victim.

So far GM has been showing that gratitude to me personaly by providing me whith a car I love so much.
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Old 11-01-2011, 09:36 PM   #33
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It's BS if you ask me.

If they can't make the ZL1 under 40k I'm gonna be pissed.
...cool. Then enjoy your supercharged SS A6 and be done with it!
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Old 11-01-2011, 09:37 PM   #34
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Again, I'll disagree with that completely just on the basis on a lack of understanding, IMO, of exactly who the government is. That guy in Washington is called a representative for a reason, he isn't the government, we are. He simply represents the interest of the government, which would be us, or at least he is supposed to represent our interests.

I already covered what I think GM owes above, and I think it not a whit unreasonable.
I don't disagree with the fact that we are responsible for putting in power the ********* heads that chose to bail out GM. But after those ************ heads are out of office next term, GM is still on the hook to make the gov held stocks profitable.

WE the PEOPLE will never see a dime of that money. It will never return to us as a tax break or incentive of any kind.

It will simply go to the treasury to be used for whatever they deem necessary.

But to think that GM owes us buy giving away product is putting the cart before the horse... they must be profitable, that is the best way for them to repay our government's investment in them.

if it had been up to the people GM would not have been bailed out. The polls showed that pretty clearly.

The lobbyists for the auto industry and the unions convinced our elected officials to bail out GM Dodge, and yes even Ford. If anyone owes us it is the lobbyists who convinced our elected officials to do something against the peoples wishes.
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Old 11-01-2011, 09:38 PM   #35
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I mean really, how could a company screw up so badly in the first place, to have to ask for a bailout from their government. At least the stock market could say America depended on its success, but what was GM's excuse?
Uhhhhh.....we were greedy? And didn't plan ahead.....and made terrible business choices.....over and over and over.
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Old 11-01-2011, 09:38 PM   #36
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Psshhh the deal breaker for me is the 19 gallon fuel tank... I really wanted 20! EPIC FAIL GM! Im never buying another GM product again! e
LOL Mac...wut, you mean theres no twin tank option? Gosh darn it..........
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Old 11-01-2011, 09:40 PM   #37
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Gm should give anyone who payed taxes that year a $5,000 discount for every car they purchase for the rest of their life.
I hope you were joking. lol

They already have a plan to pay the loan back.

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...cool. Then enjoy your supercharged SS A6 and be done with it!
And for less than 45k
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Old 11-01-2011, 09:41 PM   #38
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I don't disagree with the fact that we are responsible for putting in power the ********* heads that chose to bail out GM. But after those ************ heads are out of office next term, GM is still on the hook to make the gov held stocks profitable.

WE the PEOPLE will never see a dime of that money. It will never return to us as a tax break or incentive of any kind.

It will simply go to the treasury to be used for whatever they deem necessary.

But to think that GM owes us buy giving away product is putting the cart before the horse... they must be profitable, that is the best way for them to repay our government's investment in them.

if it had been up to the people GM would not have been bailed out. The polls showed that pretty clearly.

The lobbyists for the auto industry and the unions convinced our elected officials to bail out GM Dodge, and yes even Ford. If anyone owes us it is the lobbyists who convinced our elected officials to do something against the peoples wishes.
Don't misunderstand what I was saying, I was just making a point to someone who clearly hadn't spent much time thinking about it.
If they REALLY gave discounts to every tax payer....well....they would need ANOTHER BAILOUT LOL
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Old 11-01-2011, 09:43 PM   #39
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I don't disagree with the fact that we are responsible for putting in power the ********* heads that chose to bail out GM. But after those ************ heads are out of office next term, GM is still on the hook to make the gov held stocks profitable.

WE the PEOPLE will never see a dime of that money. It will never return to us as a tax break or incentive of any kind.
We won't see it in the form of actual payment, but that doesn't mean we won't see it. If GM succeeds, invests in the US, and the economy benefits as it logically would that can, IMO, consitute repayment...which is why I said what I did earlier. And realistically, it is the only real repayment that we are ever going to get.

Quote:
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But to think that GM owes us buy giving away product is putting the cart before the horse... they must be profitable, that is the best way for them to repay our government's investment in them.
More than that, it is silly and, to be blunt, foolish.

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Originally Posted by GTAHVIT
if it had been up to the people GM would not have been bailed out. The polls showed that pretty clearly.
I'm aware of that, but that makes those representatives no less responsible to the electorate.

Quote:
Originally Posted by GTAHVIT
The lobbyists for the auto industry and the unions convinced our elected officials to bail out GM Dodge, and yes even Ford. If anyone owes us it is the lobbyists who convinced our elected officials to do something against the peoples wishes.
I disagree. Who convinced the government to give GM our money is not the issue, that our money was given to GM is the issue. Again, I think my expectations are more than reasonable and fair, particularly to GM. I'm not asking for free cars, just that the sound business decisions, and investment in America, that wasn't made in the decades leading up to the bailout are made this time.
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Old 11-01-2011, 09:45 PM   #40
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I mean really, how could a company screw up so badly in the first place, to have to ask for a bailout from their government. At least the stock market could say America depended on its success, but what was GM's excuse?
Uhhhhh.....we were greedy? And didn't plan ahead.....and made terrible business choices.....over and over and over.
WOW! Yup, ...thats always solid business ground to stand on when you bash the manufacturer on something and yet there is future model year that you want to purchase, like the 2013 ZL1? Maybe your potential future order will wind up in production line limbo never to manufactured?
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Old 11-01-2011, 09:48 PM   #41
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Quote:
Originally Posted by 'StangBlaster5000 View Post
I mean really, how could a company screw up so badly in the first place, to have to ask for a bailout from their government. At least the stock market could say America depended on its success, but what was GM's excuse?
Uhhhhh.....we were greedy? And didn't plan ahead.....and made terrible business choices.....over and over and over.
You can't blame GM for everything that happened.

Sure, a lot had to do with crappy products in the 80s/90s, stupid decisions, slow progress, dumb***es in management, etc.

But you also had an unfair playing field with foreign companies, a union that continually asked for more than they should have, among other things.

A good read is "Car Guys vs Bean Counters" by Bob Lutz, the former VP of Global Product Development at GM (who I believe is still with the company in an advisory role). Pretty much outlined everything that went wrong.

Interestingly enough, GM had actually started to get its ducks in a row by 2009...the Camaro, Equinox, Terrain, SRX, LaCrosse, Cruze, Sonic, 2013 Malibu, Verano...all were already in development before June 2009.
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Old 11-01-2011, 09:48 PM   #42
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Just a fair warning....PM me with hate mail if you like...

This thread will be closed at 11pm EST (ie, 15 minutes)...so air your dirty laundry while you can.
  • The price the old thread was built on was outrageous, and confirmed wrong (short of impossible)...and we don't want to spread false information. Speculation is one thing, but that was a different beast altogether...and dangerous.
  • This thread is not a stage for a debate on who owes who what with regards to the financial assistance GM received during the meltdown.
SO...let's tidy this up.

Thank you.
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