How many people will E-85 their new camaro?

[TAG UR IT]

Seeing as though there are only about 6 E85 stations in San Antonio that I've heard of coupled with the fact that you'd have to spend money to get an E85 "kit," I don't think it would be worth it.

If the kit was given to me by the gov't to help the economy, I'd install it...and use it when it was possible.

[patriotpa]

IMHO it's too much trouble. You're not getting a sports car to save money on fuel.

[Speed74SS]

I was thinking of it as more of a convenience thing for me since there is a lot of E-85 stations around here and if it wasn't too expensive then I could get decent performance gains out of 105 Octane fuel. It sounds to me like there isn't very many good opinions about it, so that helps me make up my mind. That is why I like this site because people will give you a straight answer and their true opinion on what they would do. As for the economy and the government, it hasn't affected me and thats why I'm paying cash or my car when it comes in.

[CamaroSSforme]

Eek GAD no.....

I'm going to convert it to run on piss...have all the neighbors come over and help me fill the tank during football Sundays. That has to be good for the environment. :-)

[Speed74SS]

I was thinking more along the lines of the "Flux Capacitor" but whatever works for you..

[CamaroSSforme]

Originally Posted by Speed74SS

I was thinking more along the lines of the "Flux Capacitor" but whatever works for you..

The new version or the older one? I mean the blender thing on the new one looked great, but I can't think of how I'd get a hold of plutonium for the older version

[bolteon593]

you do understand that 105 octane doesn't have more combustable energy to it? it just flashes at a higher temp.

[CamaroSpike23]

Originally Posted by bolteon593

you do understand that 105 octane doesn't have more combustable energy to it? it just flashes at a higher temp.

well, sort of. e85 ethanol at 105 octane doesnt have more energy.


but one of the good things for e85 is that you can turn the boost up on F/I vehicles and get some crazy numbers

[smike07]

I will if E85 becomes more abundant and is less expensive than gasoline. I could care less about it and it's too much work to do if it's not going to be readily available.

[CamaroSpike23]

Originally Posted by smike07

I will if E85 becomes more abundant and is less expensive than gasoline. I could care less about it and it's too much work to do if it's not going to be readily available.

american consumerism and our preference to regular gasoline dictates that.

[Rman91Bird]

My uncle was gonna run it in his Pro-Streeted '70 GTO, then he sold it

[Rman91Bird]

Originally Posted by Speed74SS

I was thinking more along the lines of the "Flux Capacitor" but whatever works for you..

Where you gonna get the 1.21 Jigowatts? Gonna steal some from some Libyan Terrorists?

[LSxJunkie]

I just paid 2.69 for 93. At these prices, the only way I'll use E85 is if I throw some big turbos at the car, which I never will.

[Shifty 6]

Originally Posted by diarmadhi

Internet myth huh?

Hmm... WELL when you take a look at this document... which is what GM submitted to the EPA.. you know.. the GOVERNMENT.. that details the changes needed to be made to enable them to safely and conform to GOVERNMENT REGULATIONS so that they could produce a vehicle to run on ethanol (e85)


Link to PDF

Here is the text from that doc...

Vehicle System Changes for E85/Flexfuel
• Fuel storage and handling
– Filler neck
– Tank and associated parts
– Fuel lines
• Engine hardware
• Engine control system
– Engine controller
– Control software
– Control calibrations

Fuel Storage and Handling
• Filler neck may need changing
– Material may not be compatible with ethanol
– Leaks could result due to shrinkage or swelling
– Leak will cause OBD system to set codes (check engine light)
– Leak will cause vehicle to fail evaporative emissions
requirements
• Flame arrester is generally added to filler neck
– E85 typically has lower vapor pressure than gasoline
• Metal fuel tanks would have to be examined for E85
tolerance
– Terne metal material (typical metal tank) is not compatible with
ethanol without special coatings
– Corrosion and leaks can result
– Leaks will cause OBD system to set codes
– Leaks will cause vehicle to fail evaporative emissions
requirements

Fuel Storage and Handling
• Seals and grommets need to be evaluated for compatibility
– Shrinkage, swell, or mechanical failure can lead to leaks, codes and
evaporative emissions
• Fuel pump must be changed
– Material changes, higher flow rate
– Pump failures will lead to walk-homes
– Inadequate pump flow, whether a result of not upgrading pump or
pump deterioration, will lead to diagnostic codes
– Inadequate pump flow will lead to ineffective catalyst protection
routines, catalyst damage and emissions failures
• Fuel sender is typically changed
– Corrosion resistance and mode of operation
– Fuel sender failure leads to fuel gauge loss and, possibly, loss of
ethanol estimate and control diagnostic codes.
• Vapor pressure sensor is typically changed
– Materials compatibility
– Device required for evaporative emissions compliance

Fuel Storage and Handling
• Fuel lines are often changed
– Polymer lines
• Polymer can be extracted into ethanol and precipitate at
injector
• Fouled injectors lead to codes, uneven cylinder operation
and emissions, loss of power…
– Metal lines can corrode
• Leakage will cause evaporative emissions
• Corrosion products can degrade and plug injectors
• Degraded injectors lead to codes, uneven cylinder operation
and emissions, loss of power…

Engine Hardware
• Fuel rails should be stainless steel
– Other materials lead to the same problems as fuel
lines
• Fuel injectors are changed
– Materials compatibility
• Winding insulation must be ethanol compatible to prevent
shorts
• Corrosion resistance is very important to correct operation
– Flow must be adequate
• Allows commanded flow
• Enables rated power
• Enables catalyst protection mode and thus required catalyst
life

Engine Hardware
• Valves and valve seats are usually changed
– Wear of these components leads to valve seat
recession,
– Valve seat recession, once valve lash is exhausted
will produce valve leaks, misfire, codes, emissions,
valve burning, head replacement
• Piston rings are often changed
– Ring wear lead to blow-by, loss of power codes,
emissions

Engine Control System
• Engine controller
– Controller may need to be changed to have enough capacity to
accept required software
– Controller may have to be changed to be compatible with fuel
sender
• Fuel composition sensor may need to be added
– This provides the ethanol composition to the controller so that
the correct calibrations can be used
• If there is no fuel composition sensor control software to
determine ethanol concentration is needed.
– The software must be able to distinguish between fuel and
hardware induced changes in air-fuel ratios to ensure diagnostic
(OBD) compliance

Engine Control System
• Control calibrations
– New calibrations are required to adjust fuel, spark, EGR, etc. for
the ethanol content
– Variables are non-linear between E0 and E85
– Special calibration revisions are required for cold and hot start
– Depending on software architecture, special calibrations are
required for catalyst protection routines
– Inadequate calibrations can lead to poor running, elevated
emissions, and vehicle and emissions systems durability issues.

Conclusion
• Developing a flexfuel or even a dedicated E85 vehicle is
a major undertaking
– Conversion to an existing flexfuel design requires extensive
swapping of parts often deep inside the vehicle
– Conversion of a vehicle that has never been flexfuel requires
extensive engineering of new parts, finding suppliers, and
validating the resulting hardware
• Software and calibration development will be a major
undertaking requiring specialists to execute

OK sure, but do you have any information on this type of conversion?