Hellcat, rumor is today they show a new HP increase - Page 5 - Camaro5 Chevy Camaro Forum / Camaro ZL1, SS and V6 Forums

newmoon · 06-29-2018, 06:37 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by BlaqWhole

What I mean is that when the ZL1 arrived, it took the top spot as it had the best quarter mile time stock for stock and it got around a track faster than anything Dodge or Ford had in the same price range. The GT350R nor the Hellcat could beat the ZL1 in a straight line or around a track and the ZL1 was the cheapest (MSRP) and the only one of them that never had markups.

So now the ZL1 has been on top since 2017 MY, it will take this new Redeye from Dodge to beat it in a quarter mile and that is if FCA throws a decent tire on it and if it can put that power to the ground effectively. It won't beat the ZL1 around a track tho.

Ford needs the GT500 with a massive new power plant and the A10 trans to overpower the ZL1 in a straight line. And it is debatable whether or not the GT500 will be able to beat the ZL1 1LE around a track. And then you have to factor in how much the GT500 will cost and if it can be had without markups. Because at the price it comes in at it might not even be in ZL1 territory. And it might not even be available until 2020.

So that is what I mean. It basically will have taken Dodge 2 MYs to beat the ZL1 in a straight line provided it meets the aforementioned criteria. And it will have taken Ford 3 MYs to beat them and even then the ZL1 won't be the worst at everything. So it basically is taking a lot of time and everything to be throw at the ZL1 and even then it still will be a very capable car and will still be much cheaper than these other two.

We have had this argument many times. There is a 11:00s on the table for the Hellcat by Cars.com review, and a 10:90s on the table from MotorWeek. For the ZL1 the best I have seen is MotorTrend's 11:40s?

ST1LE · 06-29-2018, 06:37 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by JhonnyGTR

Isn't going to be DCT only?

Quote:

Originally Posted by FastCarFanBoy

there may be no manual option.

That would be depressing.

I love my DCT, they are phenomena, but I have to get a manual for the garage soon.

Finkleson · 06-29-2018, 07:15 AM

High Horsepower will always catch peoples attention. Ford better step up the gt500 after RedEye was just introduce. Dodge wins straight line, while GM takes tracks and corners? What shall Ford try to take over?

newmoon · 06-29-2018, 07:28 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Finkleson

High Horsepower will always catch peoples attention. Ford better step up the gt500 after RedEye was just introduce. Dodge wins straight line, while GM takes tracks and corners? What shall Ford try to take over?

The RedEye without the DRs is listed as a 10:80s car ???, so that IMO is should be within striking distance of an automatic 750-hp GT500, the Demon's 9's would not have been. I think we can all assume that the 500 will top the standard ZL1's track time and maybe the 1LE's as well. I don't think the challenge is impossible.

ST1LE · 06-29-2018, 08:38 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by newmoon

The RedEye without the DRs is listed as a 10:80s car ???, so that IMO is should be within striking distance of an automatic 750-hp GT500, the Demon's 9's would not have been. I think we can all assume that the 500 will top the standard ZL1's track time and maybe the 1LE's as well. I don't think the challenge is impossible.

That is a very bold prediction with nothing to base it on. The challenge is not impossible, but why can we all assume this already? Know something you want to share with the rest of us?

FastCarFanBoy · 06-29-2018, 09:23 AM

The regular GT500 is not going to beat a ZL1LE on track. There would need to be a track focused version to accomplish that imo. A GT350R with 750hp would most likely fall short.

Chadicus · 06-29-2018, 09:25 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by ST1LE

That is a very bold prediction with nothing to base it on. The challenge is not impossible, but why can we all assume this already? Know something you want to share with the rest of us?

Agreed. It would take more than just throwing 800hp at a 350R and calling it a track ready 500 to beat the ZL1 1LE. Ford COULD possibly do it but at what price point? ZR1 price? I have seen nothing so far to suggest that the 500 is aimed at 1LE performance. Ford might be content to concede the track performance to GM and go after the Hellcat.

SpeedIsLife · 06-29-2018, 12:51 PM

Why does everyone keep throwing around $100,000 for a GT500?

I'd love to know what imaginary combination of components you're crafting to hit that amount.

hotlap · 06-29-2018, 12:58 PM

I think its pretty great that we live in a world where an 650HP, 11.4 sec ZL1 disappoints people.

Bottom line: In gen5, the ZL1 was a completely sorted and better balanced car that the GT500 or Hellcat. The Hellcat can't handle the power it already has and the GT500 is MIA so I assume they are having trouble sorting it out.

ZL1 it the better car. If low 11s isn't enough, put a bigger blower on it. That alot easier than fixing a Hellcat

SpeedIsLife · 06-29-2018, 01:00 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by hotlap

I think its pretty great that we live in a world where an 650HP, 11.4 sec ZL1 disappoints people.

Bottom line: In gen5, the ZL1 was a completely sorted and better balanced car that the GT500 or Hellcat. The Hellcat can't handle the power it already has and the GT500 is MIA so I assume they are having trouble sorting it out.

ZL1 it the better car. If low 11s isn't enough, put a bigger blower on it. That alot easier than fixing a Hellcat

Eh..

It's cheaper to fix a hellcat than put a bigger blower on a ZL1.

shaffe · 06-29-2018, 01:36 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by ST1LE

That is a very bold prediction with nothing to base it on. The challenge is not impossible, but why can we all assume this already? Know something you want to share with the rest of us?

I agree. I do not see a "base" 500 going after the ZLE.

Quote:

Originally Posted by SpeedIsLife

Why does everyone keep throwing around $100,000 for a GT500?

I'd love to know what imaginary combination of components you're crafting to hit that amount.

Me too. Ford knows that the GT500 will be cross shopped against the Hellcat and ZL1. Ford knows that the MSRP must be in the same ball park as those cars.

Yes ADM could throw that off, but that is the market speaking not Ford.

hotlap · 06-29-2018, 01:53 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by SpeedIsLife

Eh..

It's cheaper to fix a hellcat than put a bigger blower on a ZL1.

This (below) is difficult to fixed and adding 90 HP didn't help. The ZL1 is a completely engineered car.

FYI - I'm on record as not being a fan of the LT4 and it 1.7L blower. Chevy seriously needs to stop the tiny blow crap.

Quote:

Originally Posted by 18Hotwheels-SS

I just traded in my 2017 Challenger Hellcat for a Hot Wheels 2SS. The Hellcat was a wild ride, by this i mean hang on in the curves because the car cant handle it and neither can the driver. I was on my way to work on I-4 outside of Orlando at about 4 am, I had a guy in a BMW wanting to screw with me, we were in a slight curve when I floored it and went sideways with traction on at 89 MPH. I traded the Hellcat in because of the rising insurance costs and the miles I drive everyday. The 2SS will take a Hellcat because it can handle so much better and not brake loose anytime you want to have fun. With 797 HP they just made a car that will kill you before you have time to blink. To me that's not a fun ride. I love driving the 2SS. It does what i ask it to when ever I ask. Its a blast. I respect the Hellcat for what it has brought to the table in the muscle car world but the car is to dangerous to have fun. I am 56 years old and i dont have to have the most HP on the street, i just want to have fun. The 2SS is fun. 797HP will take the fun out of the 4 AM I-4 drive. Just my opinion.

SpeedIsLife · 06-29-2018, 02:04 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by hotlap

This (below) is difficult to fixed and adding 90 HP didn't help. The ZL1 is a completely engineered car.

FYI - I'm on record as not being a fan of the LT4 and it 1.7L blower. Chevy seriously needs to stop the tiny blow crap.

The biggest problem the Hellcat has is a lack of traction..275 wide rubber is woefully inadequate even for a 485 HP car, much less one with 200+ more HP and buckets more torque.

Blaq and I had this discussion earlier..most of the Hellcats ills would be solved with wider/lighter wheels with more rubber. Going to a sticky 305 square set up would make massive improvements, but that's on a consumer level.

I may be behind the times..I fully admit that, but I think $2,500-$3,000 in new wheels/rubber is cheaper than replacing the blower on a ZL1.

And I fully agree with the small blower crap being a problem..it seems to me that a larger blower turning slower with less heat would be better than a small blower spinning to the moon generating lots of heat...

rocket403 · 06-29-2018, 02:04 PM

Hellcats are running low 10's for much less than the cost of what it would take to make a ZL1 get to that number, just doing a quick search shows a stock Hellcat running a 10.56 with a DR, gear and driveshaft this was from 2016 so I'm sure there are better numbers than that. I have added PZero 275"s to my 5.7L Challenger and they are better than the stock rubber but I can still get rubber in 3 gears with them, the person I got them off took his hellcat to get new rubber the day he got the car.

06-29-2018, 12:58 PM	#65
hotlap Drives: 20 1LE 2SS M6 Rally Green Join Date: Mar 2014 Location: Franklin WI Posts: 6,632	I think its pretty great that we live in a world where an 650HP, 11.4 sec ZL1 disappoints people. Bottom line: In gen5, the ZL1 was a completely sorted and better balanced car that the GT500 or Hellcat. The Hellcat can't handle the power it already has and the GT500 is MIA so I assume they are having trouble sorting it out. ZL1 it the better car. If low 11s isn't enough, put a bigger blower on it. That alot easier than fixing a Hellcat __________________ "the trouble with our liberal friends is not that they're ignorant; it's just that they know so much that isn't so.” Ronald Reagan -

06-29-2018, 07:15 AM	#59
Finkleson Drives: 16 2ss, NPP, MRC, Sunroof, Grey A8 Join Date: May 2016 Location: Concord Posts: 71	High Horsepower will always catch peoples attention. Ford better step up the gt500 after RedEye was just introduce. Dodge wins straight line, while GM takes tracks and corners? What shall Ford try to take over?

06-29-2018, 09:23 AM	#62
FastCarFanBoy Banned Drives: 2013 GB GT Join Date: Mar 2016 Location: Florida Posts: 954	The regular GT500 is not going to beat a ZL1LE on track. There would need to be a track focused version to accomplish that imo. A GT350R with 750hp would most likely fall short.

06-29-2018, 12:51 PM	#64
SpeedIsLife Drives: Current Camaro-less Join Date: Jul 2014 Location: Oregon Posts: 3,242	Why does everyone keep throwing around $100,000 for a GT500? I'd love to know what imaginary combination of components you're crafting to hit that amount.

06-29-2018, 02:04 PM	#70
rocket403 Drives: 80 Cutlass 403, 2010 FF RT Join Date: Jun 2014 Location: Ontario Posts: 921	Hellcats are running low 10's for much less than the cost of what it would take to make a ZL1 get to that number, just doing a quick search shows a stock Hellcat running a 10.56 with a DR, gear and driveshaft this was from 2016 so I'm sure there are better numbers than that. I have added PZero 275"s to my 5.7L Challenger and they are better than the stock rubber but I can still get rubber in 3 gears with them, the person I got them off took his hellcat to get new rubber the day he got the car.