Complete Build (Projected) Please Critique - Camaro5 Chevy Camaro Forum / Camaro ZL1, SS and V6 Forums

Bfh_american · 06-03-2019, 04:20 AM

Sup guys. Critique my future build please. I'm deployed and have been coming up with this project for a while. This is what I plan on running. I'm informed on this (kinda), but I'm starting to overthink.

(CAR WON'T BE ON A TRACK) I want it reliable though.

2013 2SS AUTOMATIC (L99) Thought I had an LS3..?

Whipple SC
1 7/8 Longs with high flow cats, either ARH, KOOKS, SW (I don't want rubbing, so no 2''
DW400 Pump (already bought it)
Ported Heads
D0D/VVT Delete
ID 1050 Injectors
I already have a Borla Catback
Gonna run a Stage 3 cam from BTR
Since its an Auto, gonna go with a Yank Torque Converter.

Gonna have juicedmotorsports do the install. I'm just getting the parts together first.

Gonna be at 700+- RWHP

What am I missing here?
Will the rear end be able to handle it? Computer upgrade?
I'm just overthinking this. I want this done right and I don't wanna destroy my car. Any advice is welcomed!

Bfh_american · 06-04-2019, 05:52 AM

no one?

gm2376 · 06-04-2019, 07:32 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Bfh_american

Sup guys. Critique my future build please. I'm deployed and have been coming up with this project for a while. This is what I plan on running. I'm informed on this (kinda), but I'm starting to overthink.

(CAR WON'T BE ON A TRACK) I want it reliable though.

2013 2SS AUTOMATIC (L99) Thought I had an LS3..?

Whipple SC
1 7/8 Longs with high flow cats, either ARH, KOOKS, SW (I don't want rubbing, so no 2''
DW400 Pump (already bought it)
Ported Heads
D0D/VVT Delete
ID 1050 Injectors
I already have a Borla Catback
Gonna run a Stage 3 cam from BTR
Since its an Auto, gonna go with a Yank Torque Converter.

Gonna have juicedmotorsports do the install. I'm just getting the parts together first.

Gonna be at 700+- RWHP

What am I missing here?
Will the rear end be able to handle it? Computer upgrade?
I'm just overthinking this. I want this done right and I don't wanna destroy my car. Any advice is welcomed!

I highly doubt that will put you at 700rwhp....i would think more around 650ish. But a couple recommendations.....up the injectors to 1300's and add a flex fuel sensor and go e85 too. add a aux pump to dw400 and you will be perfect. go at least a 3600 stall on the TC. That should get you over 700.

Bfh_american · 06-04-2019, 07:52 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by gm2376

I highly doubt that will put you at 700rwhp....i would think more around 650ish. But a couple recommendations.....up the injectors to 1300's and add a flex fuel sensor and go e85 too. add a aux pump to dw400 and you will be perfect. go at least a 3600 stall on the TC. That should get you over 700.

that's why I said +-. Not sure what it'll give me, just a projected number. Not concerned as much with the Power, I just want it done right, ya know? You're not the first to say go with 1300s. Most say just to go higher because you'll eventually upgrade more and require more fuel, so I think ill take your advice!! I was looking at the Yank Pro series, which is rated to 1200 HP and has a 3600 stall speed. Thank you.

Bfh_american · 06-04-2019, 07:55 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by gm2376

I highly doubt that will put you at 700rwhp....i would think more around 650ish. But a couple recommendations.....up the injectors to 1300's and add a flex fuel sensor and go e85 too. add a aux pump to dw400 and you will be perfect. go at least a 3600 stall on the TC. That should get you over 700.

Do you have a link for the aux pump for the dw 400? Can't find it

gm2376 · 06-04-2019, 08:00 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Bfh_american

Do you have a link for the aux pump for the dw 400? Can't find it

here is a example....but just bring up e85 to Juiced and I am sure he will get you what you need....he knows what he is doing..this is with the sensor...https://smgspeed.com/product/5th-gen...l-system-copy/

gm2376 · 06-04-2019, 08:01 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Bfh_american

that's why I said +-. Not sure what it'll give me, just a projected number. Not concerned as much with the Power, I just want it done right, ya know? You're not the first to say go with 1300s. Most say just to go higher because you'll eventually upgrade more and require more fuel, so I think ill take your advice!! I was looking at the Yank Pro series, which is rated to 1200 HP and has a 3600 stall speed. Thank you.

yank is good....precision makes a good one and Circle D seems to be the rave....you will be fine with either.

Bfh_american · 06-05-2019, 01:30 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by gm2376

yank is good....precision makes a good one and Circle D seems to be the rave....you will be fine with either.

I'm actually gonna drive out and have Juiced do my install. Jersey to Illinois. But that guy knows everything.

hesster · 06-05-2019, 07:25 AM

I have basically the same build already, except mine is a 2010 SS Ls3 and I upgraded the entire Suspension. A bolt on Whipple Kit with a blower cam and tune will serve up ~600 to 650 RWHP no problem, and provide a reliable and mean ass ride. But - read on.

A properly selected Whipple kit already comes with the correct injectors, and a fuel pump/module, which with a proper Dyno Tune will yield ~ 600+ RWHP - more than enough for the street, as any more is harder on stock internal parts, but certainly more can be had if desired. This assumes stock heads and a 4.00" Pully, and a good blower cam kit (springs, retainers, etc). Other must items are a LS2/LS7 Timing Chain Dampener to replace the spring loaded stock POS. A replacement Oil Pump is a nice to have, but your installer/Tuner must be careful to center it properly during installation.

Since yours is a 2013, the BASE Level Whipple Camaro SC kit already features new 65 lb/hr high flow Bosch fuel injectors that come flow matched and are rated up to 90psi of fuel pressure. The Whipple system also features a custom calibrated fuel pump driver module and a new GM High Performance fuel pump system from the Camaro ZL1. But - if you want more power, as you state, then be prepared to spend more $$ for bigger injectors, E85, etc. Sounds like you already bought a Fuel Pump, maybe did not need this, as stated it appears to be part of the kit.

You say "I want it reliable". So maybe start with the basic kit as stated above, and then you can always upgrade with a smaller blower pulley for more boost, ported heads, E85, and so on. Depends on just how much you want to spend, as this stuff is at least thousands of $$ more, on top of the $7600 base Whipple Kit, $670 Cam Kit, and thousands $$ more for misc parts and installation labor, and then a Dyno Tune which is a must have. Do the research 1st, talk to your installer for recommendations and cost estimates.

The LT headers, and exhaust are good, and you will need a better Torque Converter.

What you don't address is any chassis or suspension upgrades to handle the power. Wheel hop breaks parts, like the diff and half shafts. So lots of additional Hp/Torque does not play well with the stock suspension. The build needs to be a balanced approach to take advantage of this kind of power, and provide reliability. This obviously adds more $$ to a build, and the installation can be challenging for the DIY-'r.

I suggest you continue to research the various build threads in the forum to get ideas of what some members have done. There are a ton of very experienced members and Vendors out there that offer reference info on their builds, and may even offer detailed input (PM them), so you get the most bang for the buck.

Bfh_american · 06-07-2019, 03:45 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by hesster

A properly selected Whipple kit already comes with the correct injectors, and a fuel pump/module, which with a proper Dyno Tune will yield ~ 600+ RWHP - more than enough for the street, as any more is harder on stock internal parts, but certainly more can be had if desired. This assumes stock heads and a 4.00" Pully, and a good blower cam kit (springs, retainers, etc). Other must items are a LS2/LS7 Timing Chain Dampener to replace the spring loaded stock POS. A replacement Oil Pump is a nice to have, but your installer/Tuner must be careful to center it properly during installation.

you will need a better Torque Converter.

I appreciate this. I see what you mean. I will be upgrading the rear end to handle the power. I'm just working on it one piece at a time. What do you recommend as an alternative to a Yank? From what I was researching, they're pretty decent. I'd love the suggestions though, so I can finally make the right call. That's gonna be my next buy.

I've been in contact with Juiced, and they're gonna do my install. I've been pitching ideas back and forth with them and Aaron from BTR.
Will be getting ported heads as well, when I bring it out to Juiced.

I already have BTR LSA/P.D.S Cam kit on order, (stage 3), with a DOD and VVT delete, performance HD timing chain and fuel pump, Delphi LS7 lifters, upgraded bolts and head gasket from BTR as well.

From what I'm reading, it is better to go a little bigger with the injectors. I was gonna originally go with ID 1050x but may go a little larger. I'm aware that the kit does come with injectors, but a lot of guys on here recommend Injector Dynamics. If you feel its not worth it, as you do, I'm gonna research more. Don't wanna drop 2k almost on something I don't need.

What suspension do you have? I don't want to say what I'm looking at to prevent bias. How does it feel as well?

hesster · 06-07-2019, 07:22 AM

See post #16 as reference for what I did suspension wise.
https://www.camaro5.com/forums/showthread.php?t=554605

Most important suspension mod for more power is to get rid of any deflection and wheel hop, and the upgraded rear end components get rid of it (Rear Cradle Bushings, Trailing Arms, Toe Rods, and maybe Rear Upper Control Arm Bushings). The Coil Overs and all other components improve ride quality and handling, and ride height (Drop Springs will also work at a much lower cost than C/O's). Better Half Shafts (Axles) address durability as insurance, but are expensive. The stock Diff and Drive Shaft is fine unless you plan on drag racing and shocking it on a regular basis.
https://www.camaro5.com/forums/showthread.php?t=316648

This is a great older thread on the Camaro suspension.
https://www.camaro5.com/forums/showt...t=book+pedders

I have a Manual Trans so I can't address the Torque Conv selection. I think a BTR Stage 3 Blower Cam is the way to go, it's what I have. Nice somewhat choppy idle, and a Blower without a good Blower Cam will not bring out the power potential. I think your parts selection for your build so far are good, and may put you close to the limit for the stock internals.
https://www.hotrod.com/articles/hrdp...parts-failure/

Bigger injectors allow head room for more power later, but are damn expensive. Easy add on later.

So all of this again is just my opinion. Researching these forums was invaluable to me to select what I felt was the right parts for my build, and how to install them. I can say with over 600 RWHP the car is a absolute blast to drive. There is ZERO Wheel Hop, it launches dead straight (well most of the time), and the issue at this level is traction, and putting it to the ground. Hitting the T/C button and turning off the nannies will fry the tires unmercifully, and I learned to pull a gear almost immediately to avoid banging the Rev Limiter due to instant increasing tire speed and RPM's.
The ride is on the stiff side, but that is the trade-off. Of the many Hot Rods I have built, it is by far more brutal (and reliable) than some of the old school Iron (a few pics below).
Sure another 100 or 200 RWHP is always a great thing, but then it tips you out of the 93 octane limit as you increase boost and power, and requires careful tuning and most likely higher octane gas or E-85.

Batmanntexas · 06-07-2019, 12:40 PM

I'll go ahead and throw my $.02 in...

I started with the bolt-on Whipple kit, ZL1 fuel pump, ADM FPCM, LS9 cam, LS2 damper, 1-7/8' LTs, full 3" exhaust, FluiDamper harmonic damper, and a custom tune. With the 4" pulley, this combo made 600rwhp in a 2012 M6 Camaro on 93 octane. Switching to a 3.75" pulley resulted in 630rwhp.

Fast forward a few years, and I installed some other mods: AGP twin pump setup, 1150cc injectors, E85 flex kit, custom blower cam, ported LS3 heads, and 3.625" pulley. These mods resulted in 745RWHP on 93 octane, and 806rwhp on E85. This was on about 10-11lbs of boost.

This is just a street car, and has been at 600+rwhp, since May 2013. This car is still on the factory clutch, and all stock drivetrain.

Overall, I think your build plan sounds pretty solid.

-Scott

Bfh_american · 06-07-2019, 01:16 PM

Both of you guys have been invaluable. This is something I want to get right the first time. I appreciate the advice and the links. I’ve spent a lot of hours researching. I’m just nervous about running in to bad guidance. I’m gonna keep reading more and asking questions as I go. Hope you guys don’t mind seeing me post on here a few more times hah ��

TitusSS · 06-07-2019, 03:27 PM

The build looks good but I have one comment based upon my experience. I would not get the high flow CATs. I personally blew out my high flow CATs on my GTO with a maggie 1900. One pipe was completely clogged with the blown out catalyst and I'm lucky I did not blow the motor. If you do research on this site you will see that I am not alone with this problem. I know that certain mfgs were trying to make a more durable CAT for boosted applications but I don't think anybody has been successful. On a naturally aspirated motor the CATs do fine but they won't hold up under boost.

06-07-2019, 07:22 AM	#11
hesster Drives: '10 C5 SS, '77 Bandit T/A Join Date: Dec 2015 Location: Michigan Posts: 661 View My Garage	See post #16 as reference for what I did suspension wise. https://www.camaro5.com/forums/showthread.php?t=554605 Most important suspension mod for more power is to get rid of any deflection and wheel hop, and the upgraded rear end components get rid of it (Rear Cradle Bushings, Trailing Arms, Toe Rods, and maybe Rear Upper Control Arm Bushings). The Coil Overs and all other components improve ride quality and handling, and ride height (Drop Springs will also work at a much lower cost than C/O's). Better Half Shafts (Axles) address durability as insurance, but are expensive. The stock Diff and Drive Shaft is fine unless you plan on drag racing and shocking it on a regular basis. https://www.camaro5.com/forums/showthread.php?t=316648 This is a great older thread on the Camaro suspension. https://www.camaro5.com/forums/showt...t=book+pedders I have a Manual Trans so I can't address the Torque Conv selection. I think a BTR Stage 3 Blower Cam is the way to go, it's what I have. Nice somewhat choppy idle, and a Blower without a good Blower Cam will not bring out the power potential. I think your parts selection for your build so far are good, and may put you close to the limit for the stock internals. https://www.hotrod.com/articles/hrdp...parts-failure/ Bigger injectors allow head room for more power later, but are damn expensive. Easy add on later. So all of this again is just my opinion. Researching these forums was invaluable to me to select what I felt was the right parts for my build, and how to install them. I can say with over 600 RWHP the car is a absolute blast to drive. There is ZERO Wheel Hop, it launches dead straight (well most of the time), and the issue at this level is traction, and putting it to the ground. Hitting the T/C button and turning off the nannies will fry the tires unmercifully, and I learned to pull a gear almost immediately to avoid banging the Rev Limiter due to instant increasing tire speed and RPM's. The ride is on the stiff side, but that is the trade-off. Of the many Hot Rods I have built, it is by far more brutal (and reliable) than some of the old school Iron (a few pics below). Sure another 100 or 200 RWHP is always a great thing, but then it tips you out of the 93 octane limit as you increase boost and power, and requires careful tuning and most likely higher octane gas or E-85. Attached Images

06-07-2019, 12:40 PM	#12
Batmanntexas Drives: 2012 Camaro SS (2SS) Join Date: Aug 2012 Location: Stafford, VA Posts: 1,375 View My Garage	I'll go ahead and throw my $.02 in... I started with the bolt-on Whipple kit, ZL1 fuel pump, ADM FPCM, LS9 cam, LS2 damper, 1-7/8' LTs, full 3" exhaust, FluiDamper harmonic damper, and a custom tune. With the 4" pulley, this combo made 600rwhp in a 2012 M6 Camaro on 93 octane. Switching to a 3.75" pulley resulted in 630rwhp. Fast forward a few years, and I installed some other mods: AGP twin pump setup, 1150cc injectors, E85 flex kit, custom blower cam, ported LS3 heads, and 3.625" pulley. These mods resulted in 745RWHP on 93 octane, and 806rwhp on E85. This was on about 10-11lbs of boost. This is just a street car, and has been at 600+rwhp, since May 2013. This car is still on the factory clutch, and all stock drivetrain. Overall, I think your build plan sounds pretty solid. -Scott __________________ 745RWHP/634RWTQ on 93 @ 10psi 806/676 on E85 @ 10psi COTW 9/8/14

06-03-2019, 04:20 AM	#1
Bfh_american Drives: 2013 Camaro 2SS Join Date: Mar 2019 Location: New Jersey Posts: 62	Complete Build (Projected) Please Critique Sup guys. Critique my future build please. I'm deployed and have been coming up with this project for a while. This is what I plan on running. I'm informed on this (kinda), but I'm starting to overthink. (CAR WON'T BE ON A TRACK) I want it reliable though. 2013 2SS AUTOMATIC (L99) Thought I had an LS3..? Whipple SC 1 7/8 Longs with high flow cats, either ARH, KOOKS, SW (I don't want rubbing, so no 2'' DW400 Pump (already bought it) Ported Heads D0D/VVT Delete ID 1050 Injectors I already have a Borla Catback Gonna run a Stage 3 cam from BTR Since its an Auto, gonna go with a Yank Torque Converter. Gonna have juicedmotorsports do the install. I'm just getting the parts together first. Gonna be at 700+- RWHP What am I missing here? Will the rear end be able to handle it? Computer upgrade? I'm just overthinking this. I want this done right and I don't wanna destroy my car. Any advice is welcomed!

06-04-2019, 05:52 AM	#2
Bfh_american Drives: 2013 Camaro 2SS Join Date: Mar 2019 Location: New Jersey Posts: 62	no one?

06-05-2019, 07:25 AM	#9
hesster Drives: '10 C5 SS, '77 Bandit T/A Join Date: Dec 2015 Location: Michigan Posts: 661 View My Garage	I have basically the same build already, except mine is a 2010 SS Ls3 and I upgraded the entire Suspension. A bolt on Whipple Kit with a blower cam and tune will serve up ~600 to 650 RWHP no problem, and provide a reliable and mean ass ride. But - read on. A properly selected Whipple kit already comes with the correct injectors, and a fuel pump/module, which with a proper Dyno Tune will yield ~ 600+ RWHP - more than enough for the street, as any more is harder on stock internal parts, but certainly more can be had if desired. This assumes stock heads and a 4.00" Pully, and a good blower cam kit (springs, retainers, etc). Other must items are a LS2/LS7 Timing Chain Dampener to replace the spring loaded stock POS. A replacement Oil Pump is a nice to have, but your installer/Tuner must be careful to center it properly during installation. Since yours is a 2013, the BASE Level Whipple Camaro SC kit already features new 65 lb/hr high flow Bosch fuel injectors that come flow matched and are rated up to 90psi of fuel pressure. The Whipple system also features a custom calibrated fuel pump driver module and a new GM High Performance fuel pump system from the Camaro ZL1. But - if you want more power, as you state, then be prepared to spend more $$ for bigger injectors, E85, etc. Sounds like you already bought a Fuel Pump, maybe did not need this, as stated it appears to be part of the kit. You say "I want it reliable". So maybe start with the basic kit as stated above, and then you can always upgrade with a smaller blower pulley for more boost, ported heads, E85, and so on. Depends on just how much you want to spend, as this stuff is at least thousands of $$ more, on top of the $7600 base Whipple Kit, $670 Cam Kit, and thousands $$ more for misc parts and installation labor, and then a Dyno Tune which is a must have. Do the research 1st, talk to your installer for recommendations and cost estimates. The LT headers, and exhaust are good, and you will need a better Torque Converter. What you don't address is any chassis or suspension upgrades to handle the power. Wheel hop breaks parts, like the diff and half shafts. So lots of additional Hp/Torque does not play well with the stock suspension. The build needs to be a balanced approach to take advantage of this kind of power, and provide reliability. This obviously adds more $$ to a build, and the installation can be challenging for the DIY-'r. I suggest you continue to research the various build threads in the forum to get ideas of what some members have done. There are a ton of very experienced members and Vendors out there that offer reference info on their builds, and may even offer detailed input (PM them), so you get the most bang for the buck.

06-07-2019, 01:16 PM	#13
Bfh_american Drives: 2013 Camaro 2SS Join Date: Mar 2019 Location: New Jersey Posts: 62	Both of you guys have been invaluable. This is something I want to get right the first time. I appreciate the advice and the links. I’ve spent a lot of hours researching. I’m just nervous about running in to bad guidance. I’m gonna keep reading more and asking questions as I go. Hope you guys don’t mind seeing me post on here a few more times hah ��

06-07-2019, 03:27 PM	#14
TitusSS Drives: ECS Supercharged 2010 SS Join Date: Oct 2012 Location: Spring Posts: 121	The build looks good but I have one comment based upon my experience. I would not get the high flow CATs. I personally blew out my high flow CATs on my GTO with a maggie 1900. One pipe was completely clogged with the blown out catalyst and I'm lucky I did not blow the motor. If you do research on this site you will see that I am not alone with this problem. I know that certain mfgs were trying to make a more durable CAT for boosted applications but I don't think anybody has been successful. On a naturally aspirated motor the CATs do fine but they won't hold up under boost.